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Post by aj czarkowski on Jun 18, 2014 16:13:17 GMT -5
I got a new scope for my Springfield, because like most custom rifles made from the Bar10 or Vsr11's, the accuracy from the iron sights is pathetic mostly because of how high it shoots. I'm still having a problem with the accuracy. I'm not sure if it's the scope or what but something's really screwed up. I was sighting in the scope yesterday and today, and the scope seems to be adjusting fine, as far as horizontally goes. But vertically, it's completely unpredictable. It's actually still shooting high, even when I adjusted the scope near all the way up. What's interesting is every five shots or so will be so high you have to maybe aim at the guys feet to hit them in the top of the head, but the next few are almost bulls eye  I turned the hop up off obviously as I really don't need the bb's to go any higher. I'm pretty sure the TSD Bar10 uses a 6.03mm tight bore barrel. The scope is an AIM 3-9x40. The only upgrade the gun has is a high carbon steel first sear since of course the original pot metal one breaks so easily, not that that would effect accuracy. And NO, it wasn't windy today lol. |
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shiftysgarand
Corporal
BangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangPING
Posts: 1,165 
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Post by shiftysgarand on Jun 18, 2014 17:55:11 GMT -5
Is it possible that the inner barrel is loose/ installed incorrectly? If it was installed at an angle or is loose and wobbly, that would explain the problem.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Jun 18, 2014 19:42:42 GMT -5
That's a pretty good idea, but after I checked it, it is still sturdy. That's a good thing though, I'd have no idea how to fix that I guess
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Post by insterburger on Jun 19, 2014 7:21:17 GMT -5
Just brainstorming here-- Has the tip of the barrel hit anything lately? Could be a nick in the crown.
Also, if the barrel is installed in such a way that there is undue pressure on part of it, it could actually very subtly bend the barrel, which might lead to the kind of inconsistent results you're getting.
Was it doing this before? Or is it only since you've installed the scope?
Again, kind of just thinking out loud. More info on any disassembly/reassembly you've done recently could enlighten.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant 
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 19, 2014 17:28:02 GMT -5
I suspect though you have pushed the hop up slide to the "off " position it is still on. Sometimes with these VSR copies the hop up does not disengage as it should. Also sometimes the bolt holding the stock to the mechanicals is tightened too much which effects the flight of the BB. Finally a possibility is when you mounted the inner barrel into your new (smaller ) outer barrel your spacers cause the brass inner barrel to warp a bit creating a bow shaped barrel that effects the flight of the BB. It takes very little to do so as you might imagine. Good luck with it.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Jun 20, 2014 10:51:25 GMT -5
Just brainstorming here-- Has the tip of the barrel hit anything lately? Could be a nick in the crown. Also, if the barrel is installed in such a way that there is undue pressure on part of it, it could actually very subtly bend the barrel, which might lead to the kind of inconsistent results you're getting. Was it doing this before? Or is it only since you've installed the scope? Again, kind of just thinking out loud. More info on any disassembly/reassembly you've done recently could enlighten. It doesn't seem like there's any nicks in it, it hasn't hit anything lately. I used a drill rifle to make the Springfield so the stock was all one piece. Where I had to cut is now held together by tape so maybe if it was pressing on the barrel too hard, that is causing it to bend slightly? I'm not too sure if this was happening before to be honest. I only fielded it once shortly after I built it for an event in 2012. I used it at night so I didn't notice if the bb's were shooting inconsistently or not. I have always used a scope on it, but the old scope was an original Weaver scope so I'd rather not use it/ that's why I bought this new one. I sighted in that scope very quickly the day before that battle so for all I know it could have had the same problem then. I suspect though you have pushed the hop up slide to the "off " position it is still on. Sometimes with these VSR copies the hop up does not disengage as it should. Also sometimes the bolt holding the stock to the mechanicals is tightened too much which effects the flight of the BB. Finally a possibility is when you mounted the inner barrel into your new (smaller ) outer barrel your spacers cause the brass inner barrel to warp a bit creating a bow shaped barrel that effects the flight of the BB. It takes very little to do so as you might imagine. Good luck with it. I have heard about that certain problem with the hop-up. It had actually happened to my Kar98 earlier and I took it apart to fix it. Perhaps it did happen to this one too, but I don't remember ever turning the hop up on. Today I'll shoot it again and this time watch to see if the bb's are curving up or not, then I'll know if it's a hop-up problem. I didn't use the original bolt to hold the stock to the mechanicals but instead used a piece of wire (I had some problem with that bolt, can't remember exactly what happened). That can also be too tight I suspect. Hmm, the outer barrel I used seemed to have sufficient space, but I'll check that out too. I'm thinking at the moment that the problem is either what you said about the mechanical parts being too tight against the stock, or what insterburger said about the pressure on the barrel. Maybe it's both! I'll loosen both parts and see how that affects the flight of the bb's today |
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Post by aj czarkowski on Jun 22, 2014 12:37:22 GMT -5
Well, I shot it again yesterday and disassembled it. I believe Insterburger was right, there is a part of the lower stock that I don't think I filed down enough. The barrel does actually appear to bend upward lol. Can't believe I never noticed that before. Today's Sunday so it's not like I've got anything to do, I'll try and file it down and see how it goes from there. Thanks for your help Shifty, 2nd Bat and Insterburger.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 22, 2014 14:57:38 GMT -5
Let us know about te outcome. I suspect there will be.a happy ending.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Jul 6, 2014 20:36:41 GMT -5
Well, I think I'm done with these Bar10/VSR11 conversions. I've worked with four Bar10's all from different manufacturers and generally they are unreliable, jam often, and above all terribly inaccurate. My kar98k was the first I built, and to be fair I messed with too many of the internal parts and that probably led to it's problems. I then used another vsr11 with the same Kar98k, and it performs poorly as well and I didn't even touch the internal parts except for upgrading the sear! I also have a new unmodified bar10 and it's somewhat reliable, it only jams once in a while, but it too is far from accurate. Now with my Springfield, I spent the past couple weeks working an hour or so on the thing every day, and eventually I got the barrel nice and straight and even. I took it outside today, and believe or not the first 30 or so shots were dead on! I was very happy with the result. I loaded up a second magazine, and the first few shots were pretty good too, but then it started shooting all over the place again!
Why do people bother with these things?! Did it just so happen that every single one I got is a lemon? I hear people saying they can shoot targets 100ft away and across football fields with these things, and honestly I no longer believe them. I'm using .28 gram bb's, and they say they're using .20's and .25's!
When I first started WWII airsoft back in 2010, I remember everyone saying "You REALLY should buy a rifle, there are way too many SMG's!". Well, they got me. I wondered why the people saying that themselves were all using Thompsons, MP40's, and StG44's. I've shot all three of those and I can honestly say that the bar10's are no more accurate than they are. The only upside is that you will be using an unique weapon. There is no advantage I see from using these things unless everyone else is too.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jul 7, 2014 10:46:48 GMT -5
The only company that makes BAR-10s is JG. Are you referring to another brand? The JG BAR-10 is a clone of the Tokyo Marui VSR-10. It is by far the best clone out there. I wouldn't bother with any of the other brands.
The only jamming problems I've seen with them are from using bad quality BBs. If you fine tune a BAR-10 is can be a very accurate rifle not so much out of the box. The BAR-10 is harder hitting and more accurate than an MP40 out of the box. AEGs always have an edge as you can shoot them large bursts, accuracy isn't a huge issue. If you miss one shot you have 10 other shots right behind it to make up for it.
Getting a rifle is for realism. Maybe you got the idea you'd be getting more kills by playing with a rifle. That isn't the case of course. AEG's will have you outgunned.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Jul 7, 2014 15:14:47 GMT -5
From what I know, stock "sniper rifles" are seldom powerful and not good enough to be considered "sniper rifles" (by airsoft terms). They are good guns to get to start out with and last may last awhile, but as stock, they usually shoot under 400fps despite what websites may post (I know evike.com is notorious for putting up wrong info on their site). That is why most people who buy an airsoft sniper rifle, usually drop just as much as, or double, the amount of cash they paid for the base rifle for upgrades to turn them into excellent rifles.
Its kind of sad that no one sells rifles that have the upgraded components in them, but if you browse Airsoft classified and such, you'll see an upgraded BAR/VSR-10 that someone is selling.
For your specific problem, have you tried replacing or replacing the bucking and/or the entire hopup? Maybe the barrel itself was warped from the factory. Getting an Angel Custom, Prometheus, or Madbull 6.01mm tightbore is paramount. And when fully upgrade, stock up on .30's or even higher grain BBs.
At that point, the advantage you'll have is that you will be able to shoot further away, and others can't hit you with stock AEGs. Especially in WWII games, where most AEGs are submachine guns with short barrels. At the very least, you will be evenly matched against all the other guys with their upgraded bolt actions.
Then at that point, you are hitting a higher level of realism.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Jul 8, 2014 13:42:05 GMT -5
The first I used was a JG Bar10, then a TSD SD700, an AGM MP001, and finally a Matrix VSR11. The Matrix one was probably the best out of the four I hate to admit because I'm not a huge fan of evike.com. Like I said before, I screwed around too much with the internal parts of the JG Bar10, and I thought I was using good quality bb's (Cybergun "Arctic White" biodegradable .20g's). I found out later how bad those were. With the other three, I've been using King Arms .28g and WE .28g bb's, I think they're pretty good? I didn't think I would get more kills by playing with a rifle, but I thought I'd at least have the advantage of range. But range is pretty useless without accuracy. Also, they all are probably harder hitting than the MP40 out of the box, mine anyway isn't more accurate, and compared to the StG44 the power might be slightly better but the accuracy is worse.
Dracul, thanks for the suggestion. I have definitely put enough money into it where I don't want to give up on it. The only upgrade I have done so far is replacing the pot metal sear with a steel one. I'm not too good with working on hopups, usually they are too fragile and a couple of times I admit I broke them just by taking them apart. I have used Angel Custom before and I'll check out their upgraded hopup. I'm pretty sure that most VSR11 clones use 6.03mm barrels. That's what the barrel on this particular one is supposed to be, so I thought it would be more accurate than that. Also, if the barrel was warped, wouldn't the accuracy be more consistent but bb's would go off to one side or something? Unless it's something inside the barrel, from the outside it looks perfect. I'm thinking maybe it's chipped on the inside. Yeah, it isn't very realistic when your rifle is more inaccurate than everyone else's submachine guns.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Jul 8, 2014 18:29:54 GMT -5
You're welcome, I'm not saying a warped barrel is your specific problem. Kind of just threw out the suggestion there. I bought plenty of airsoft guns myself, and I got a bunch of weird stuff from stock guns. You really can't go wrong with one of those high end inner barrels.
Hopefully upgrading will fix your problems.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jul 11, 2014 11:33:00 GMT -5
The first I used was a JG Bar10, then a TSD SD700, an AGM MP001, and finally a Matrix VSR11. The Matrix one was probably the best out of the four I hate to admit because I'm not a huge fan of evike.com. Like I said before, I screwed around too much with the internal parts of the JG Bar10, and I thought I was using good quality bb's (Cybergun "Artic White" biodegradable .20g's). I found out later how bad those were. With the other three, I've been using King Arms .28g and WE .28g bb's, I think they're pretty good? I didn't think I would get more kills by playing with a rifle, but I thought I'd at least have the advantage of range. But range is pretty useless without accuracy. Also, they all are probably harder hitting than the MP40 out of the box, mine anyway isn't more accurate, and compared to the StG44 the power might be slightly better but the accuracy is worse. Dracul, thanks for the suggestion. I have definitely put enough money into it where I don't want to give up on it. The only upgrade I have done so far is replacing the pot metal sear with a steel one. I'm not too good with working on hopups, usually they are too fragile and a couple of times I admit I broke them just by taking them apart. I have used Angel Custom before and I'll check out their upgraded hopup. I'm pretty sure that most VSR11 clones use 6.03mm barrels. That's what the barrel on this particular one is supposed to be, so I thought it would be more accurate than that. Also, if the barrel was warped, wouldn't the accuracy be more consistent but bb's would go off to one side or something? Unless it's something inside the barrel, from the outside it looks perfect. I'm thinking maybe it's chipped on the inside. Yeah, it isn't very realistic when your rifle is more inaccurate than everyone else's submachine guns. Yes unfortunately tampering with airsoft guns can often hamper their performance if you don't know what you are doing. I used to mess rifles up all the time before I learned how they worked. The Bar-10 is a great rifle out of the box. Certainly much more accurate then a stock MP40. Look into having someone else work on your gun as far as upgrades go if you are unsure of yourself. |
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 12, 2014 21:54:29 GMT -5
I agree. I have NOT been at all happy with the ACM 001. Or TSD clone but as stated by others have been very pleased with the numerous JG Bar 10 clones I have bought and used for conversions. There are numerous great resource sites detailing simple upgrades and tweaks for the Bar 10 and some pitfalls and cautions. By following those tips great results and your satisfaction should go up substantially. Even honed and nicely tuned,
a bolt action, single shot weapon will always be at great tactical disadvantage to a semi automatic or full automatic rifle and the slight range and accuracy advantage you should be enjoying will quickly be lost when the enemy closes on you.
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