Springer Kar98's. Finally got something that should work!

[Dracul]

After a good amount of failures with springer Kar98's, I decided that if I have any hopes of making WWII bolt actions that actually work, is that I have to use the Hairy Apples' 1903 approach. After that seller of the G&G Kar98 tried to screw me, I got my money back from Paypal. Turned it around and bought some boneyard BAR-10's. 

Unfortunately, I can't get any of them to work, some of the screw holes are stripped, and might take too much parts and trial and error to get them into working order once more. So, I'll probably just buy Echo1 PSR's, saw off the outer barrel, drop it into the stock, and attach the rear sight and be done. Fortunately, the stocks were still in serviceable condition, so I went ahead and started the conversions. 

All the pieces cut out and ready to be assembled. 



Mock assembly. 


BAR-10 stocks lining up with the DBoy Kar98's. They line and square up pretty damn well. Does need filling




The butt stock lining up. Filling here is needed as well. 


Might finally have some good Kar98's that work and not look too bad. 

[2nd Bat]

That is an excellent approach and one I think you'll be very pleased with. To strengthen your marriage between the butt stock and forestock you'll want to connect both with a length of wooden dowel inserted into both sections and resin filled with a strong resin paste (like dynaglass) rather than normal bondo. The resin paste can then smooth out and finish your seams. At the tip of your VSR stock I would have sawed off the extreme tip to create a flat seam and provide a logical opening for the dowel (or dowels)

Great way to lay out your plan. Your boneyard VSR should provdes spares should they be needed and by using the center section of the actual VSR stock you guarantee that mag feeds, removal and reloads will be seamless as you can use the normal mag alignment and release. Thanks for sharing. Why a factory doesn't see the obvious potential here is beyong me?

[Dracul]

On the tip of the of the VSR stock, I ground the edges to create surface area that the Kar-98's forward stock will cover. I know my picture is hard to see (I'll take a better one later, stock is curing), but think of it like Lego pieces. I created a stud that will go into the forward stock. I didn't want to make the "stud" too big, out of fear that it would become a weak point from grinding too much away from around it. However though, the "stud" and the Kar98 stock does line up pretty well. For the dowel, I'm going use a lead weight from the M1 Carbine mags to strengthen the connection.

To those who are wondering, the stock neck of the BAR-10 slides into the Kar-98's stock neck fairly snug, and pretty deep. The surface area that the Kar98 stock covers is a lot of space for your adhesive (I'm using JB Weld here). I think using a dowel is excessive, but time will tell if I'm going to eat those words or not.

Alternatively, and what I would have greatly preferred to do, just keep the butt stock from the BAR-10 and mod it into a more Mauser stock. Drill out the sling hole, transplant the metal rings, sand the edges to make them more curved and Mauser like. Yeah, the stock wouldn't look quite right, but I would be fine with that. The whole idea here is to mess with the donor rifle as little as possible, and all the modifications be external. Practicality>Authenticity. Unfortunately, out of the two BAR-10 stocks I've received, one butt stock was just sawed off completely and the other was greatly modified. Forcing me to do the way that I'm doing it now. 

[2nd Bat]

The lead weights should function like the dowel I had in mind in terms of supporting a rigid contact between sections. With adequate adhesion the use of the DBoyi butt stock is excellent since your donor gun provides them anyway. I have had good luck revising the BAR 10 stocks to look like Kar 98, Springfield scant stocks and SMLE stocks but doing so requires a lot of effort and the end result will not be as nice as I suspect yours will come out.

Keep us posted!

[Dracul]

Project Updates! 

Here are the lead weights being used as dowels. Adhered on with copious amounts of JB Weld. 


Once that cures up, I'll be drilling out a hole for the lead weights in the front of the stocks, and connecting them. 

For filler, I'm going to try and use JB Weld's "Water Weld". Its a putty that is meant specifically to adhere and strengthen plastics. I hope this works out well.  I tried looking into different resins, but I was too afraid the fumes would have been too much for my apartment. I don't mind working with resins, I've done so in the past, but I'm not willing to do so in my apartment. With putty in mind, I can fill up those G43 holes in the handguard!

Also! I decided that it would be a waste of parts to buy new rifles altogether, just to drop them in. So, I bought some parts in hopes of being able to fix these. As the first measure, I bought UTG upgrade kits for the bolt and cylinder. Metal piston, 170 spring, metal spring guide. If it still not working, then I'll have to replace the sears. Which is something I'll eventually have to do anyway. That should completely fix one and get it going. The other one's receiver, might have stripped screw holes, so I might have to buy another receiver and outer barrel for it. I hope I can find them used without having to purchase whole other boneyard rifle.  

When I make more, I will be starting out with new in box Echo1 PSR's. 

[insterburger]

Schwerpunkt used this method, and I have one of his rifles. Reliable, and reasonably good looking.

I prefer the build fitting the BAR10 into the DBoys stock because the finished product will look more accurate, but there are many, many pitfalls in that method that are avoided by doing things this way. Good luck and keep us posted.

EDIT: Looking at this method, it gives me a few ideas on how the appearance could be approved. Might give it a try myself down the line...

[2nd Bat]

With your approach to connecting the sections using the weights and JB weld your contact points should be plenty strong allowing you to use fillers to fill in contact points and eliminate the seams. With no need for further rigidity a number of fillers that are easier to work with than bondo or Dyna glass should work. From there some shaping and lots of sanding and you're ready for paint. Acryllics work very well and can create convincing wood finishes for your stocks and handguards.

[Dracul]

Stock front end attached and curing! 

For alignment purposes, I decided use adhesive/filler on the outside first. Which was a good move. Since I didn't lather all the parts with JB weld and try to piece them all together and fear knocking something over and JB weld all over everything. 



It might need to take another passing of JB weld to blend it better. 

Inside look after it cured.


This is where the Water Weld came into play. The entire tube was used here. Doing my best to stuff into the crevices between the stocks, the dowel, and the walls. Each tube cost 5-6 bucks, but the amount I was able to cover with it was sufficient enough. 


Going to take a bit to cure. I haven't done this to my second just yet. I'm having a bit of a reserve about my method. I'm afraid I might have messed something up with the alignment of barrels. So, I'm going to finish this one up and field test it to make that its good to go before I do the same exact thing to my second one. If I screw up, I want to know so I can fix up my method for the second one. Instead of having two rifles screwed up. 

[insterburger]

While you're working with filler you should fix those G43-ish cutouts in the hand guard.

Also, for big joins like this I would recommend at least using something meatier such PC-7. It's pastier than JB Weld, and more workable. Ideally, though you should be using a fiberglass resin such as dynaglass. Often there is a fabric backing that can be used in conjunction with it that might provide even more strength. You really need those joins to be as strong as possible.

Good luck with this, keep us posted!

[2nd Bat]

PC-7 is a good solution for your indoor restrictions.

[Dracul]

I'll be sure check it out when I'm ready to work on the second rifle. Thanks.

[Dracul]

Small update on these:

The cylinder upgrade/repair kits came in, and I found out two set backs.

First, one of the cylinders is a MP001 cylinder and will not work with these BAR-10's. So, I'll have to find a spare cylinder, to which should be easy and cheap, I know a guy.

Second, none of these rifles had guide rings. So, even with the upgrade/repair kits, I couldn't get one to work. The guide rings push the cylinder down, so the piston can catch on to the sear. The sears are fine at the moment, but I will be upgrading those soon as well. Just in case, and for the price Clandestine Airsoft as them, no reason why I shouldn't. So, I'm going to see if the same guy I mentioned has extra guide rings I can get off of him. If not, I know of a mod that uses 35mm film canisters. I got a set of them for my M28 from someone on the Airsoft Sniper Forum. I just have to hunt them down, haha. Someone is looking for them for me though.

[insterburger]

Drac, if your guy falls through let me know, I will probably have a spare cylinder (just the cylinder, no other parts) in the near future as I currently have a couple builds in (stalled) progress that I will soon be getting going again and have an upgrade cylinder that I will be using.

[Dracul]

Thanks, but does that cylinder have the bolt handle and end cap/shroud? I'm obviously good for the cylinder internals, I won't be needing those. 

[Dracul]

Small, but important update.

I got in parts to get my first one working. Not well (low fps), but it works enough to test it out. I brought it out to the field today and before I got to playing, I shot it in the field's target range. It shoots good! Looks like all my alignment is good to go!!!

In the near future, I'm going to finish up this one, and begin working on the second one! Tomorrow, I should be getting in upgraded sears, which SHOULD be the last parts I need to get both of these running and shoot with a M170 spring. 

I don't anyone knows how excited I am to have a Kar98 that finally works, haha.

[ssgjoe]

You should post photos I the final product.

[Dracul]

Of course, but I have to have a finished product first, haha. Still need to get some external work done, then a paint job that doesn't suck.

[ssgjoe]

Awesome! I'm actually excited. Are you gonna make the bolt look more accurate?

[hennepin15]

Honestly I'm the type who wouldn't mind the normal bolt. As long as it's done. I have the exact parts minus the donor rifle so I'm waiting for the motivation from these results. Keep it up!

[Dracul]

I don't feel comfortable changing out the bolt handle, even if I had the tools to do so.

UPDATE: 

When I was installing the upgrades parts, the trigger box screw holes on the receiver, stripped on me. I'm getting a new receiver in, putting this project on hold. I'm sorry guys, but this is what I get for buying boneyard. 

[2nd Bat]

Given that there are so many potential set backs even with all new parts I agree with the advice to stick with new, functioning parts UNLESS you are a natural, repair, fix it kind a guy. So many of these projects get way laid, put on the back burner and never finished that every potential snag that can be avoided, should be.

[Dracul]

I understand where you are going with this, but these aren't like that. Yeah, its taking time, mainly due to shipping times and trial and error, but I'm not putting these on the back burner.

When these are finished, I'll definitely be doing one more, in the ideal scenario, with a fresh out-of-the-box bolt action.

[hennepin15]

Ill probably end up doing one of these myself since I have a spare stock bar 10. I was wondering if there is a way to avoid the dboys front end and homemake one yourself since im making a schwerpunkt stock. Also I was thinking sintra board for the rear sights but a process for homemaking the front bands and front sight is something im still unclear about.

[volkssturm]

You can take the original stock and reshape it. This is a JG M700 stock that may eventually become an Enfield No. 4 if I get off my butt. The comb of the stock needs to be cut down and the pistol grip reshaped. Below it is a Dboys Kar98 stock. You night consider getting actual upper and lower 98 bands which would help get the front end dimensions correct. If this was going to be a Kar98 the pistol grip would be pretty easy to shape. It wouldn't be perfect but it might pass the twenty foot "looks like a 98" test.

[insterburger]

By the time you put the money into the bands and other sundry parts that will make the gun look more than very vaguely 98k-ish, you might as well spring for a boneyard DBoys.

[Dracul]

Been mostly tinkering with both of these lately. After deciding to revert these to a "near stock" status, I'm fairly confident that I almost have these working again. 

The tan one works, but I really have to slam the bolt in for it to fire. Or the trigger will just lock back and I have to push it forward. However, it does feed and shoot, but that needs to be fixed before ever hoping to field it. 

Green one cocks properly, but when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Trigger acts as it does when its not cocked. I tried two different trigger boxes, too. 

Anyway, I decided to just use more Water Weld for the externals. Its curing now. 


Hard to see from here, but I think it will turn out well. 

[2nd Bat]

Volks your drawn in lines on the stock look great for turning it into an Enfield.

[insterburger]

Drac, is that a slight lens distortion on the last pic, or is the stock in the foreground at a slightly rakish angle?

[Dracul]

The stock probably is at a bad angle.... Precisely why I would have preferred not to fix the full stock from the Kar98 and just mock up the BAR-10 stock. Unfortunately, I had no other choice with these.

[2nd Bat]

In again looking at Volks drawn in lines on his take off stock I am inspired to go ahead and modify a couple of my many take off BAR 10 stocks and do them up into ENFIELD SMLE lower stocks that once finished could be used for some quick and easy conversions.