Tan &Water smock for a Heer impression

[sniper]

I have already used the search button ,and done some research on my own . I was wondering if it would be period correct to wear the Tan&water smock to a game ? I know that they were issued from 1943 up until the end of the war . would the average soldier have this type of smock?

[neoptolemus]

Short answer, no.

You'd be better off wearing a zeltbahn if you want camouflage.

However, it would be "accurate" in that some soldiers wore them.

AFAIK the only camouflaged uniform that saw good usage with the WH was the 2 piece reversible winter suit.

[binarypunisher]

GD had a lot of camo items.

[sniper]

would it work for a late war impresion?

[Adler69]

Tan and Water camo works from Normandy on , it starts to show up in Italy at the end of '43 , at Normandythe Heer's 346th Inantry Division was issued with some Tan and Water smocks , most of the late war pics you see of Heer soldiers with T&W smocks are snipers, Fallschirmjager where also issued with T&W jump smocks in '43.

[sniper]

I am in the proses of starting a German Heer unit , and I like the tan &water smock , so would it be period correct if we had some people with the smock and the rest with the zebanth . was the 346 the only unit issued with this type of camo?

[Adler69]

as far as i know the 346th was the only one issued T&W smocks in large numbers , and by large numbers i mean more than 100 smocks in one shot, the rest went to Snipers.

[flectarn]

the 21st panzer division also had a large number of tw smocks. Smocks tend to be more for panzer grenadiers, snipers, and gd soldiers rather than infantry units.

[sniper]

do you know how common it would be to for a panzer grenadier unit to have them ?

[gadge]

Its incredibly *uncommon*

Even helmet covers were prety rare. The only universally issued bit of cam kit is as mentioned the zelt in heer units.

Issued Heer camo items include.
Helmet covers (splinter only to my knowledge)
Smock
Apron
Reversible winter suit

Some other items got made up by officers as privatepurchase and a fair bit of stuff was made up from old zelts.

Unfortunaltey camo in the heer suffers form the same myth/'i want it to be like this' as armour does.

80 per cent of the lads fought in field grey.... just as 80 per cent of the army was *horse drawn*.

However the airsofter/wargamer in ourselves wants hordes of camo clad warriors leaping out of hanomags....

If you want to do it for airsofting then i say go for it and fill your boots, if you want 're-enactment level' accuracy i'd probably stick to field grey and a helmet cover at best.

[osok]

Does this all apply to the splinter pattern parka aswell, I'm in the same boat as sniper, I want to set up a heer unit but I like the camo. I want to buy a reversible splinter/white parka, is this right?

[gadge]

As said its uncommon.

As a rough guide look at twenty pics of wwii german soldiers found on the internet at random, how many have cam kit?

Unfortunately you cant alter history 'because you like that colour better'

If you really want splinter pattern kit then portray a late war GrossDeustland Panzer Grenadier.

Its not unrealistic then, as for parkas, you got them if your job required it. Remember they were critically short of cold weather gear, espeically in the first russian front winter.

You were lucky to get a great coat!

GD PzrGndr: (scuse very wrong boots....)

[sniper]

were the men that received the tan and water smocks of any special rank . and what units received the larges amount of the tan and water smocks?

[gadge]

As I think has been said, largely to snipers or recce units that needed them, i've seen landsers and majors in them, they are just very rare.

[flectarn]

21st panzer division in normandy.MOST camo'd heer unit in normandy. Portray them, as a sniper.. Get a tan and water smock, cut off the hood and make it into a helmet cover.

[sniper]

I think I will be a Sargent in one of the 21st panzergrenadier units , there are two reasons for this , I am starting a new unit , and I already have an MP40. Could I still were a tan&water smock .

[flectarn]

Yes! You can still wear a tan and water smock.

[gadge]

But the point were trying to make is its exceptional kit, not regular stuff.

I'd recommend buying a zeltbahn before any smock.

EVERYONE got a zelt.

That and splinter pattern is still rare than panda sperm in the whermacht but far more common than tan and water.

If you want airsoft fun buy tan and water if you want to look like a whermacht grenadier get a zelt.

[binarypunisher]

Splinter is a tight pattern anyways, better than T&W.

Sturm zelts are cheap if you can find them, cheaper than a uniform, no sense in not buyinf of the Germans most useful piece of kit.

[sniper]

Thank you I think I will get the zelt , I was originally looking at the tan and water smock as a way to get started , kind of like the SS use their smocks to camouflage the fact that they are missing half of there uniform . at least until the have the money to by it Thank you for your help.

[sniper]

I was doing some reserch and I discoverd that 116 panzer division was issued with the Tan &water smock , and the splinter pattern.

Gadge where did you get the splinter pattern smock from. and can you suggest a place to buy a tan &water smock from?

What were you refering to when you said the Germans most usful picec of kit ?

[flectarn]

Not to bash on gadge but, His splinter smock and cover look very nasty in coloration and pattern. If you are looking to get a good smock...smwholesale.com is your best bet

[Jager.Drü]

That stuff on smwholesale looks like swiss splinter. I love when people bash some of the china made camo. The tunics aren't the best, neither is the SS camo. But splinter isn't that hard to mess up.

For example FJ jumpsmocks. ATF Splinter B, Barry Linden/Spearhead, and Janke. Out of those there, which do you think makes the best jump smock?

I be most "reenactors" will say Janke, because the cost and how everyone "loves" Janke.



Guess what, he makes his jumpsmocks out of Swiss splinter. The best one out of those three, is the BL/Spearhead as its the price, pattern and cut.

So sometimes the most expensive isn't always the best.

[Adler69]

Swiss Splinter is easy to spot, it has Yellow spots on the background color , the Green "Rain drops" are also much lighter on the Swiss Splinter than on the German splinter and the Swiss splinter camo is much darker than German Splinter.

Here's my original WWII German Splinter Zetlbahn on the bottom and a Swiss 1941 dated Shelter half so you can see the difference .

[sniper]

what about spearheads Tan&water pattern are they correct , although I like some of the spliter stuff , I still like the tan&water more and as it seems that I will be one of the only ones with one i think I should be ok right?

[Jager.Drü]

I haven't seen any of the new Marsh pattern stuff from spearhead in person. The pictures look ok, I would throw it in the mud and get it dirty.

[Ripper]

Here is the Spearhead Tand and Water 'sniper' smock shot under flourescent light. Washed once.



The same pattern but on the winter pants/parka set. Washed once. Same lighting.



Spearhead Spinter parka. Brand new, same lighting. Not sure if it is 'A' or 'B' pattern.

[gadge]

Funny the colour of my splinter smock is *exaclty* the same as that original zelt at the bottom of the pic.

That pic somehow makes the green look too lurid, its nowhere near that colour in reality.

Helmet cover is faded through use....

I think the cover is 'atthefront' (it was given to me by a comrade) and the smock is from 'suesue' on ebay, it might be a strum one, its pretty much identical to the ones SOF sell.

[Jager.Drü]

That parka is splinter B, which parkas where never made of splinter B fabric.

T&W looks good to me.

[Ripper]

Guess I need to ditch the parka and either get another one or just wear mouse grey when I wear the Heer uniform.
The colors on that parka closely match the 'spring' side of my zelt, but is a bit brighter. The smock is dead on for the 'fall' side.

A pic of the parka and a smock together.



smock: