2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Tracers
Jan 5, 2006 21:45:43 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 5, 2006 21:45:43 GMT -5
The old joke about tracers is they work both ways and that's true but they aid greatly in accurate fire at night. They were primarily used to align a groups fire in a coordinated way rather then to help an individual with aimed fire.
With tracers, an element leader (squad, platoon or company) could quickly ascertain what was happening within his area of responsibility. Are all the forward areas being covered? Have the final protective fires been initiated and is their effective plunging fire or grazing fire? Hard to determine without tracers at night.
Another tactics for tracers was that typically you would load every third of fourth round with tracers. Small unit patrols would some times load every round as a tracer so if engaged by the enemy behind the lines they could temporarily decieve the enemy into thinking they'd been engaged by a larger force then they have and create momentary confusion and chaos.
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Tracers
Jan 5, 2006 22:31:30 GMT -5
Post by Guinness on Jan 5, 2006 22:31:30 GMT -5
John,
Do you have information on Tracer colors in WWII? I believe in the 'Nam the NVA used green while ours were red/orange?
And thanks for another great set of informative articles!
-G
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Tracers
Jan 6, 2006 23:13:11 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 6, 2006 23:13:11 GMT -5
That is correct and a little known fact about Soviet issue tracers being whitish green while ours were orangy red. I don't know the answer to the question about WW2 tracers. definitely worth knowing. I love the fact that there are now both green and red tracers available for airsoft. Tracers elements are one of the truly coolest things you can get for your airsoft guns although they won't look WW2 correct on any of the guns. (Night time so I guess it won't so much matter.) I am going to build my 30 cal and Ma Deuce so the tracer unit is inside the barrel shroud. I wish all airsoft guns had a muzzle flash and louder report. That would be cool for daytime games as well as night games. We required them at our Combat in Cities Urban Combat Missions Game last year and seeing the muzzle flashes even when the lights were up convinced me how important it is and what a realism enhancer it is. Campers beware!
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Tracers
Feb 16, 2007 22:16:50 GMT -5
Post by kcaj8 on Feb 16, 2007 22:16:50 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that our tracers were orangy red, although I seem to remember that there were other colors besides the ones mentioned above. Just a thought.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Tracers
Feb 16, 2007 23:44:19 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 16, 2007 23:44:19 GMT -5
Yes in WW2 our tracers were orange red. What I don't know is what color German tracers were.
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
Posts: 923
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Tracers
Feb 17, 2007 1:24:03 GMT -5
Post by Russian on Feb 17, 2007 1:24:03 GMT -5
2ndBat's comment above, a few posts back jogged something in my mind. Would it be possible to work a cap-gun system into an airsoft gun? Could one of the gun wizards rig this up? I think it could be possible to rig the trigger to slap a cap at the same time as firing a BB. Maybe for bolt action rifles? So that each time a cap is broken, it would coincide with a single shot. Just a thought, not meant to snatch up with thread.
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TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
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Tracers
Feb 17, 2007 13:44:17 GMT -5
Post by TommyGunner on Feb 17, 2007 13:44:17 GMT -5
One thing I was thinking we could do to help improve the realism of a night fight would to instal maybe two or three LED lights on the tips of the barrels and some how rig them up to light up when the trigger is pulled simulating the barrel flash. At night we also wouldnt have to wrroy about the lights and batterypack for them looing out of place becuase we couldnt see them.
TommyGunner
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Tracers
Feb 17, 2007 16:56:39 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 17, 2007 16:56:39 GMT -5
There are some companies working on those very things and I have been monitoring that very closely as I think it would be a huge enhancement. (not just for nightime either.) Muzzle flashes would lend great realism even in the day. Bright LED lights is all you'd need. The type used in digital camera flashes. It would seem they could be powered off the guns battery and be not much larger then a cutts compensator. I was thinking on the Garand AEG it could be mounted inside the Gas reservoir assembly.
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Tracers
Feb 18, 2007 19:32:53 GMT -5
Post by Tough Ombre on Feb 18, 2007 19:32:53 GMT -5
alot of times the barrel for the bb's is smaller then the actual barrel for the gun, so if only there was a way to add a ring around the barrel of led lights and then rig them to trigger assembly.
Another thing that could be done, is funnel it down the barrel, making an opening that is covered w/ plexi glass. then you just have a bright flash go off there and it should be carried down the barrel. You could tint the plexi like a yellow color too, and for the light, just get a cheap camera, and put the flash over the plexi. then just cover it with something reflective, ie tin foil. Then tape it on or what ever. That way light doesnt escape and goes straight into the barrel.
I have never looked at the inside of a TM thompson, or an M1, though i know with my m14 there is quite a bit of space in the stock around the barrel. And if i could get a spare barrel i would try this. But im not going to ruin my current barrel for it, because i dont have the money for a new one . Though im sure 2nd Bat, or some one could elaborate on these concepts and make some thing worth while. Just my 2cents
-Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Tracers
Mar 4, 2007 22:23:31 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 4, 2007 22:23:31 GMT -5
I just bought a couple of the G&P mid cap magazines that have a built in high strobe light that charges flourescent racer BBs inside the magazine. The magazine has a switch at the top that activates the light when you stick it in the gun. It;s ealed well so you don't see light coming out of it. I was surprised that the BBs glowed as well as they did. They aren;t quite as bright as the TM tracer element and the BBs don't stay in their glowing stage quite as long. (Actually they fade as they fly which is not unlike a real tracer.) They cost $28.00 so, far less then a conventional tracer element. I was impressed. Unfortunately at present they are only available in an M16 variation. The concept could be easily doen in other mid cap magazines. The magazine contains three N batteries and the only thing you have to be wary of is don't leave them in the weapon when you store the gun as your batteries will of course run down.
A simplar approach in a box magazines for a crew served weapon seems easy to do but I attemted it in a RPK box that I have with several bright LED lights and there was no effect whatsoever. Obviously something special about the lights used.
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neidy
Private
29th Lets Go!
Posts: 117
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Tracers
Mar 8, 2007 23:24:40 GMT -5
Post by neidy on Mar 8, 2007 23:24:40 GMT -5
I think German tracers were yellow, but I'm not 100% positive on that one....
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Tracers
Mar 8, 2007 23:45:23 GMT -5
Post by spitfire740 on Mar 8, 2007 23:45:23 GMT -5
I heard that in the pacific, anti-aircraft fire was all different colors of the rainbow. Now that was anti-aircraft tracers, but improv is the key! I think that would just look weird in an airsoft game.
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Tracers
Mar 9, 2007 14:01:33 GMT -5
Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 9, 2007 14:01:33 GMT -5
In the ETo im pretty sure that the Tracers were Orange and Yellow. Im pretty sure that at this time, they didnt have many colored tracers. I have never hear of that one spitfire! lol -Cary
~edit~ I just found this cool fact. about tracers.
It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th found with a tracer round to aid in aiming. That was a mistake. The tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet, the tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. That was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Tracers
Mar 9, 2007 17:58:21 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 9, 2007 17:58:21 GMT -5
When I loaded tracers (Ground action) I either loaded all tracer ammo to give the enemy the sense that he was being engaged by a larger force or loaded every third round. I also put five tracers together in the mag first so I knew when I was running out of ammo and had to change mags. If the enemy knew either was a common practice of course the effectiveness of the practice would go down. Frankly in the heat of the moment I doubted they'd likely catch on to either. Fortunately I never had to test the theory other then in practice.
Some units only loaded tracers in the squad, section and platoon leaders weapons so they could direct fire with their weapons or use them to signal shifts of fire or final protective fires be initiated.
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Tracers
Mar 9, 2007 18:19:01 GMT -5
Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 9, 2007 18:19:01 GMT -5
Yes, i was reading about that. I think that on the ground it is hard to pick up on such a practice rather then in airial combat. Hey if you come up with a way to fit that tracer unit into an m14 mag let us all know i would love that for my m14/m1 garand lol. -Cary
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Tracers
Mar 10, 2007 1:50:21 GMT -5
Post by Jager.Drü on Mar 10, 2007 1:50:21 GMT -5
For the Germans, I've heard white, blue, yellow,red,orange...every color. I can't seem to find a source to say which color they actually were.
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Tracers
Mar 10, 2007 2:03:34 GMT -5
Post by click on Mar 10, 2007 2:03:34 GMT -5
If you can't find a concrete color you could just pick pink ;D!! (jk)
Click
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Tracers
Apr 14, 2007 19:32:38 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 14, 2007 19:32:38 GMT -5
Be sure to do that at our next event so we'll be sure to know it's you! I actually have some cheap 12 gram flourescent that are pink. I want to put a flash cube in my claymores when they go off and have them loaded with flourescent BBs so when they go off it's send glowing BBs everywhere.
So many projects so little time.
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