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Post by worldwardrew on May 31, 2006 8:52:00 GMT -5
How many of you guys would prefer to play with authentic tactics, where the squad is actually structured and you actually maneuver as if you were in the army for real. And how many of you like to run around in FPS style and just shoot what you see?
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Post by Gordak on May 31, 2006 9:04:05 GMT -5
Even if its totally hollywood farb, I try to make it feel like we are in a squad, with a couple guys always set aside for a flanking manuver. -Gordak
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Post by 2ndranger on May 31, 2006 14:07:31 GMT -5
Yeah i hate when im airsofting and my friends charge at me despite getting hit with 3,000 freakin pb's. Id rather be in a situation where we have to hold positions, fall back to certain points, and be under fire without getting hit of course (or at least not me ) this is ww2 airsoft people should play as if these were real bullets flying not just plastic pellets.
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
Posts: 923
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Post by Russian on May 31, 2006 18:33:39 GMT -5
First, kudos for 2ndranger, using pb's. ;D
Second, the squad I am apart of believes in encorporating completly WWII tactics into airsoft. We try to learn all the signals, and movements required. We love authenticity!
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Post by 2ndranger on May 31, 2006 19:19:46 GMT -5
See now thats how we should do ww2 airsoft!!!
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Post by Jager.Drü on May 31, 2006 23:23:49 GMT -5
authenticity is what sets us WW II AS apart from CTF rounds and team Death match games, I used to love those, ever since the Carteen game, those type of games aren't even fun. Squad tatics are the way to go
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Post by polak on May 31, 2006 23:58:34 GMT -5
Well, we don't really need to employ many tactics, seeing as the fools we're up against are taken out within a few seconds. Heck, I love having a Special Forces guy for a friend. Some Communist kid, who keeps on shouting about how America sucks, got his ass kicked yesterday after he waved a USSR flag in my face. Swung the butt of my rifle in his gut and shot 'em good.
Anywho, sure!
Remind me not to go off into tangents.
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Post by worldwardrew on Jun 1, 2006 0:08:59 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear most of you enjoy using authentic tactics! When we play it is strickly by the book military, but some times it is fun just to run around the yard shooting each other. However, I am all for authentic tactics 99% of the time.
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Post by Gordak on Jun 1, 2006 20:41:04 GMT -5
playing for 11 years now, still got a long way to go, to anything I could even call authentic, Perhaps im just humble. but I think also, the shorter distances we deal with in airsoft wreak havoc on the ww2 text book manuvers. Id like to make a general request, Before you say what you think, ask yourself how many real (20+ player) airsoft games have you been in? I know that in blank fire reenacting, where this is actually possible (because its literally pretending) . true text book tactics are barely scratched upon. this is part of what drew me to airsoft in the first place. My battle cry was "ok, you dont want to improve your realisim, then hows actually getting hit?" So, What might seem only logical to a chairsofter, might seem like hell freezing over to a vet airsofter. Im not trying to slam anyone, just trying to share what I know with what others know. obviously the goal is as close to the real thing as possible, but be realistic in your realism LOL thas sounds funny -Gordak
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Post by worldwardrew on Jun 2, 2006 8:49:14 GMT -5
Well, we have tailored or real tactics to airsoft; so no they are not 100% authentic, but the tactics are as close as we can possible get. We had a Marine gunnery sergeant help with converting the tactics; it took nearly 2 months of practices, but now everyone functions like a real platoon. I have played in at least 2 20+ airsoft games a month for the last 6 months and about once a month for 4 years before that (not all WWII oriented though).
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 2, 2006 19:49:52 GMT -5
Can I take off my shoes and socks to help me count?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 5, 2006 23:43:31 GMT -5
I have found that most serious airsoft mil sim players know the tactics but very very few actual employ them. To do them right requires lots and lots of rehearsal, practice and training which few players devote the time and effort to do. It's easy to intellectualize fire and manuever, movement by bounds actions at danger areas and reactions to near and far ambushes but actually doing them instinctively in real time is extremely hard! This is not a slam it's just a fact.
There are a few local teams that have opened themselves up to formal training on a limited basis and have applied what they've drilled on in actual games. (With great success I might add) Helmuts group is getting pretty good. Remember that members of the actual Military (combat arms) have as a full time job honing their marshal skills.
As airsoft hobbiest few players can or will devote the time not frankly should they be expected to. A little bit of formal training and practice can make a huge difference however. In my book it makes the activity a lot more fun.
I've been in 5 airsoft events with over 200 players and dozens with over a hundred. Oh and I spent 7 years in the Infantry.
I'd like to see more and more of it in airsoft and am delighted to say I'm starting to.
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Post by Gordak on Jun 6, 2006 18:11:42 GMT -5
yup, like 2nd Bat says, It is hard as hell, to do it right... and we can't train every day like the big boys do, I can post about what we should do all day long, but its just a waste of time. I know its important to have realistic goals. I would much rather have correct gear and weapons first, and THEN work on tactics. The truth is, tactics comes with time... and how many posts you make on a message board, is in no way a subsitute for being in the feild. so I applaude the spirit of the people who posted at the begining of this thread, but please realize its a TON of work. To me, its just like when someone posts an "I want to build a custom gun" thread. 99% of the time the people don't even have the faintest Idea of how much work it actually is. the truth is, 99.9% of them don't get past spell checking the post. Before they move on to something else. So far as actually putiing effort into the project, LOL never. We are VERY luck to have 2nd Bat posting tactical suggestions, Please worship and obsorb those posts! -Gordak
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Post by spitfire740 on Jun 6, 2006 21:12:10 GMT -5
yes it would be difficult to use real strategic, and tactical maneuvers, but there are also some rather easy methods to learn, such as what Russian mentioned, memorizing the hand signals. You don't need to be on the field to do this, and when somebody uses it, you know what it means and what to do.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Jun 8, 2006 8:47:16 GMT -5
All I know is the basic basic basic stuff, but hey thats better than running around at full speed and just shooting at anything that moves
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Post by WWDrew on Jun 11, 2006 15:01:42 GMT -5
Yeah, it dose take a lot of practice. We have gotten better and better, because fortunately a lot of the guys I play with have time during the week. We usually practice at least once a week. At the beginning we looked ridiculous but now we can actually use the fire and maneuver style of play that adds to the awesomeness that is air soft!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 11, 2006 23:11:49 GMT -5
The effects of proper fire and manuever never are appreciated and realized with blank firing reenactment which is a huge reason I prefer airsoft. If you factor the limitations of range keep you magazine loads in sync and scale your movements accordingly airsoft can be quite authentic. Especially if you're playing in a location that accomodates visual contact. I'd like to see players use low caps and wish every airsofter had to haul the identical weight of the rounds they haul so they'd get away from the massive spray and play mindset of play that saps airsoft of it's mil sim nature more then the non veterans will ever imagine.
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Post by worldwardrew on Jun 13, 2006 18:21:32 GMT -5
I totaly agree 2nd Bat, I usually use low caps because they are more realistic (and reliable). In fact alot of the guys I play with use low caps for diffrent reasons. Only bad thing is trying to find all your mags after a long game!
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Post by Gordak on Jun 14, 2006 10:29:25 GMT -5
low caps, and restricted fps, its the only way. -Gordak
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 13, 2007 0:02:15 GMT -5
For the big game WW2 events Helmutt requires all players except Support weapons to use only low caps and restricts their use to 20 rounds or 30 if the weapon realistically had that capacity and it's a representative gun. He also holds everyone except SAW gunners and people with period correct SMGs to semi auto fire. In addition players have realistic ammo loads for each mission phase. The MGs really take on meaning and the communication required by teams and mutual support that results is quite impressive. Add his new medic rules and great props and things are taking on a definite Mil Sim atmosphere.
Things just keep getting better and better. For this old man who's been waiting to see things go this way it's very encouraging.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Jan 13, 2007 2:44:37 GMT -5
John, you are going to see some text book German tactics come LW. You better watch out!
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Post by wade on Jan 13, 2007 14:34:20 GMT -5
Actually I've found going lone wolf is a little better sometimes than squad based tactics; I don't know if that is determined by the squad I'm on, but I've found that if you stay alone, you stay alive. I do like the squad based tactics, but only if it's with people more serious abot realism than some punk who just wants to shoot'em up.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 13, 2007 23:28:14 GMT -5
At normal airsoft skirmishes that don't attempt to depict a mil sim event you're probably smart to do so. Being alone as compared to being lumped in with a group that is clueless has major advantages.
At anything that realistically attempts to depict Military simulation you would find yourself extremely ineffective during the course of the event. Lone wolfs don't have much fun at our events and aren't particularly welcome.
If you're in actual combat and find yourself alone even for a little while, something has gone terribly wrong. There are of course a few exceptions but very few and never when others don't know what you're up to. (Flank watch, securing an ORP, dedicated route guide, trail watcher etc.)
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Post by wade on Jan 14, 2007 9:03:33 GMT -5
In milsims I would prefer squad tactics, there just aren't many around here because the people just like to run around and shoot things instead of simulating an actual combat situation. I do like squad based tactics, but as much as I like to be on a squad, the people aren't as experienced up here. When I do come to milsims, yes squad based tactics are the best, for regular skirmishes, no.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 14, 2007 16:38:01 GMT -5
Wade and everyone else on this board. I'd love to have you come out and join us and see how to "Do it right." Stay with it and continue to strive for getting folks to play in a more realistic fashion and you'll be rewarded eventually with a change in perspective. Start with just two or three guys working together, see the results and then watch others wonder what you're doing.
rehearse what you're going to try and do, when you're not getting shot at and remember like anything new (golf swing or new batting stance) it won't all fall into place immediately.
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Post by Gordak on Jan 14, 2007 19:34:49 GMT -5
why dont we just start new threads, this one was 8 months old...
-Gordak
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Post by airsoftblitzkrieg on Feb 9, 2007 14:07:47 GMT -5
personally i love real as possible. my squad (modern warfare) has a chain of command and if you disobey, you can get demoted. you do good, you get commended for your work. it all really adds on to the realism of the factor.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 9, 2007 18:42:01 GMT -5
The manuever tactics and teamwork employed by the battlesim group who played mostly Germans at the Long Winter were impressive indeed. The only place where I saw great struggles and a lack of momentum was at the bridge assault. I couldn't figue out why the force to the west of the bridge were so bunched up and imobile. As a controller I went to investigate and was shocked to discover how blinded you were by the morning sun. It was obviously unanticipated and incredibly dramtic. A huge advantage not realized by the defending US forces. Greatly exacerbated by goggles and mesh masks. Other then that occassion the manuever flexibility and team work of the German forces was impressive indeed.
Especially during the second enagagament where you flanked and assaulted the US mortar position on the hill. The road ambush on the second day was a clearly advantageous to the US side but still ended up being a great firefight along the slope after the ambush was intiated. Great tactics, fun to witness. In both the bridge defense and the ambush the US bazooka team did a super job manuevering on and taking out the tank.
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rkrueger
Private
G Co 505th Cannonballers 3rd Bat 1st platoon
Posts: 344
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Post by rkrueger on Mar 15, 2007 12:05:09 GMT -5
I prefer real Tactics, I like it because, you don't see in ww2 them just running around by themselves, no u see them as a unit. Thats how i look at it
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