HFC 134a gas availability

[Ersatzjack]

After reading on the articles menu about the HFC 134a gas adapter and the possibility of using auto parts stores for the purchase of said gas I drove by one and checked it out. I don't have a gas gun yet but am thinking about the Tanaka 98K and wanted to see if I really did have a cheap alternative available. Well I tried two auto parts places and they both sent me on my way. They said that in order to buy the gas I would need to have licenses that I don't have. They were talking about R134 gas and this is what replaced freon for refrigerant in air conditioners. I asked them what about HFC 134a and they didn't seem to know there was anything like that but indicated that the only thing they sold and only to those in the business was the r134. My question - is there a difference? Does the HFC134a gas really exist at auto parts dealers and if so any idea what chain. Anyone else ever try to buy it this way. As I understand it the gas isn't entirely friendly and that is why you have to be licensed to buy it. Am I going to be stuck with buying the hobby gas? I can live with that but if the article is dated and no longer pertinent then maybe it should come off the page.

[CharleyNovember]

Can the Tanaka not use propane? If it can that is the way I would go.

[Gordak]

propane might put the tanaka over the legal fps limit (if your feild has one)

Hfc134a is avalible on the shelf at any wallmart, usualy 6.98 a can, though ive got them for as little as 2.99 a can. Sounds like you just went to a small scale auto parts place.

-Gordak

[2ndranger]

I got some for $12.00 at Ace Hardware, does propane come in canisters like the HFC or a tank? How long does it last? FPS? And what are the long term effects on the Kar98? Does someone make an adapter?

Thanks
Schutze

[CharleyNovember]

Gordak is correct propane may put you over the FPS limit. Limit at our field is 550 for bolt action sniper rifles with a MED of 100ft. I don't own a Tanaka so I'm not sure what they get in the FPS area. Propane is sold in little cannisters in the camping section of Chinamart and there is indeed an adapter that can be purchased for using propane. I know airsoftatlanta.com sells them and they are made by a company called airsoft innovations I believe. Green gas is propane/propane is green gas so if you are willing to use green gas you shouldn't really be worried about using propane. Some airsoft guns cannot take green gas as it is too high of a pressure and breaks your gun.

[2nd Bat]

Typically Japanese guns cannot tolerate the pressures of green gas but invariably it's the blow back components that can't withstand the pressure, not the propelling components that shoot out the BB. Chinese blowbacks generally have less precise tolerances and hence can handle the sronger gas. The original Marushin carbine is a non blow back airsoft rifle, hence it could use greengas without harm. The tanaka is a bolt action rifle not a blow back so I'm quite confident it can use green gas. It is an extremely hard shooting gun with green gas and probably will exceed your field requirements unless you use 134. With 134 It's still a plenty powerful gun.

As mentioned elsewhere outside temperatures greatly effect the power generated by the various gases. Warmer temperatures produce greater expansion, hence greater power. Colder weather does the opposite. In winter weather gas guns are fairly impractical. With gas guns, firing quickly for prolonged periods, cools the gun and reduces it effectiveness. Even propane oddly enough is a coolant.

We're not talking about an enormous consumtion of gas for a bolt action rifle or pistol. My recommendation is just buy and use the prescribed gas. Often it's the fill mechanism that is the weak link and without the proper nozzles you'll end up wasting alot of gas. If you consume alot of gas (GBB pistol tournaments or you use alot of mosscart grenades) the propane adapter is a worthwhile investment and works well if you can tolerate the odor. Why they don't have to add the artificial smell to Greengas (Also propane) is beyond me. HFC 134 is duster gas with silicon lubricant added. You can use duster gas but you'll have to regularly lube your guns seals and internals or things will dry up and fail fairly quickly.

All these gases are highly flamable and somewhat volatile. Take care (especially in the summer) to keep them in a cool place out of direct sunlight especially under the glare of a window. The back shelf of your car on a hot summer day is really not a good place for the gas cannisters.

[Ersatzjack]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I think I'll look into the Walmart solution for now. I'm not really looking for 500+ fps. Give me 400 and Sergeant Saunders is a dead man. Ha, I know... that's what all the newbies say. allamericandan is styling in his paratrooper gear. I like. (I meant the gear.) Soon I'll have enough stuff to pose for pics myself. Then I'll switch the avatar. Don't forget, Jack is back this Sunday night on Fox. Rush Limbaugh saw the first eight episodes and said best season yet. (Monday too!)

[Guinness]

gordak said:

propane might put the tanaka over the legal fps limit (if your feild has one)

Hfc134a is avalible on the shelf at any wallmart, usualy 6.98 a can, though ive got them for as little as 2.99 a can. Sounds like you just went to a small scale auto parts place.

-Gordak

Gordak,

At Walmart? is it duster air that you need some adapter for or regular old HFC134a with a metal nozzle that I can fill my guns up with?

I never knew! I have been spending twice that plus shipping from evike and AEX

What section is it in?


-G

[Nimlas]

guinness said:

gordak said:

propane might put the tanaka over the legal fps limit (if your feild has one)

Hfc134a is avalible on the shelf at any wallmart, usualy 6.98 a can, though ive got them for as little as 2.99 a can. Sounds like you just went to a small scale auto parts place.

-Gordak

Gordak,

At Walmart? is it duster air that you need some adapter for or regular old HFC134a with a metal nozzle that I can fill my guns up with?

I never knew! I have been spending twice that plus shipping from evike and AEX

What section is it in?


-G

At the Wal-Marts here in Coneckicut, it's in the automotive section, near the floor matts and stuff I think.

[Guinness]

W00t!

Thanks Jack!



-G

[napalm]

So I finally found the stuff at the local Wal Mart but the problem is, there is no fill nozzle! The can just has threads and what looks like a metal membrane (reminds me of the ones on super glue containers). What have you guys been using to use the 143a available at Wal Mart to use in gas weapons?

[Gordak]

look at the instructions on the webpage on how to make the filler.

-Gordak

[napalm]

Thanks! Looks like I've got a project for my day off Monday

[Capt. Zak]

What' up with the $12.99 price tag on the 134A gas? Also....DON'T GET THE 134A WITH THE LEAK STOPPER ADDITIVE!!!!!!

You'll clog up your gun.

[Ersatzjack]

I just wanted to let Wisconsin folks know that according to several auto parts stores and Walmart's too that this alternative is a non-starter. No sales unless you are licensed - period. It's not for sale due to State regulations here.

[2nd Bat]

If you buy the 134a refrigerant for auto airconditioning units there can be issues in some states. The duster gas is usually carried in the office products and is frankly the same thing with no issues (even in states with the restrictions on airconditioning gases.) . Remember there is no silicon lubricant added. With regular use you'll save money but probably damage your guns seals and internals. Maybe fill with it every other or every third magazine charge?

[napalm]

One thing we do around here with the propane and the adapters is put silicone oil on the inside of the valve before filling up a magazine. It's worked so far and we haven't had any problems with internals or the seals.