Will making a Mosin be SUPER hard?

[cye]

i was looking at those pictures of that one Mosin airsoft gun fromthat one chinese company again and i said to myself...DAMN I WANT A MOSIN but i dont have 1k to shell out for something that will go out in the battlefield...so i had the idea of buying a r/s Mosin and replacing the internals with a USR-11 or something of that sort. Now first off i want to ask, is this possible...and if so, is it so overwhelmingly difficult that i shouldnt even bother with this? i dont know, i just thought of this as a kind of "spur of the moment thing" tell me what you guys think.

[click]

I think that it wouldnt be that hard. Ask others, like 2nd Bat, who have done similer projects. I think you should give it a whirl and let us know how it turned out.

Good luck!
Click

[TommyGunner]

Buy the gun and buy the USR-11 and just go for it, it is completely possible for you to do a conversion and it could take as little time as a weekend to a week to do. Once you have a basic understanding of how you will mount everything its a breeze.

TommyGunner

[2nd Bat]

This board and I personally am quick to point out when someones idea isn't practical or too much bother to attempt. In the case of turning WW2 bolt action rifles into functioning airsoft rifles the projects are most definitely doable and make great sense. They require time and effort but not much in the way of fancy tools or special skills. A dremel, a tape measure a marking pencil and a cheap base rifle along with the donor rifle and you're there. With Mosin Nagant rifles selling so cheaply the whole project should be under $200.00

I've built three Springfields and am doing a Kar 98 now and they have all been fun and fairly easy. I heartily encourage people to take on this project.

[jimseery]

I was originally going to suggest that the Mosin Nagants are one of the more difficult bolt actions to replicate, but on relection I agree with 2nd Bat get the real steel, get the springer and try to make them look like the real thing. Think in terms of the drill team dummy rifles (I know I'm repeating myself) if you look at them closely they're pretty crude, but everyone that sees them says they're a Springfield. Get something finished that you can take into the field. Talk to people, the vast majority will think you're hot stuff even if you know better. Solicit suggestions, most everybody is willing to help. When a suggestion to improve what you've done makes sense, go for it. The secret is that you will find that once you have torn everything apart and put it together again there is no fear in tearing it apart and making improvements. Good Luck!

[click]

On the note of doing a Mosin, how would one create a straight bolt? The early war Polish rifle also had a straight bolt.

Click

[TommyGunner]

The bolts are one of the items that are the hardest to make and most of the time its a good idea to simply lave them alone, I persnally dont find the wrong style bolt or handle that distracting because everone who looks at it and after you explan the conversion process will understand that you didnt want to mess with the operation of the rifle, just the cosmetics.

TommyGunner

[2nd Bat]

The base rifle bolt (If you use a VSR style base rifle) doesn't have to cycle down to fully cock. For that reason you could build using your base stock so the bolt rests in a straight out appropriate position. Slight lift up, pull back and push forward. Woooolah you have a straight bolt action. This would also work for the Arisaka rifle which also didn't have to cycle down like the Kar or Springfield.

[CharleyNovember]

I'll have a mosin conversion ready by the end of this month.

[ncthorn]

I wish I could add something to this post but in all honesty guys you summed it up very well. The one thig I would advise is to spend a good long while planning this project. Measurements and markings for cuts are crucial. Also make sure you have a plethora of dremel bits, you are going to need them.

On a side note.... It looks like ill be making my first two Vz.24/M48s to sell very soon. Ill post pics when they are done. I already have the first two buyers lined up but if anyone is interested PM me. They come out to around $230 + $15 shipping.

Good luck on the Mosin cye! Cant wait to see pics

[2nd Bat]

Dan I am anxious to see your finished product. I'm sure it'll be awesome. You're original Kar 98 was what inspired me to attempt and succeed with Garands and later the Springfields. If Ncthorn is willing to do WW2 bolt action style rifles for $230.00 finished I think he'll sell a bunch of them. Get us pictures there nc . That has to be about what your pure costs are without even factoring the labor. GOD Love ya!

[ncthorn]

Before I post I must make a very sincere apology for possible thread jacking. Sorry cye.

Hey im glad to hear that there is some enthusiasm regarding the Mauser variants. I have decided that I will probably have to sell them for $245 plus whatever shipping costs as the $230 did not take into consideration the fact that I have to pay separate shipping on the parts for the guns. Im sure youve seen my Vz.24 conversion so that is pretty much what they will look like, although I will try to make them look a little less beaten around but will also weather the receiver in order to make it match with other metal hardware on the stock. Ill also include an Owners Manual that will describe disassembly for servicing and upgrading in detail. i hope to make a decently attractive but realistically plain package so that when it arrives at the buyer's doorstep they feel as though they have purchased a real piece of Wehrmacht property.

BTW as soon as I sell a couple of these Mausers watch for my possible Stg.44 project to begin. I have an idea for one that could cost less than $300 and while it wont be perfect, will definitely play the part well enough.

Here are some sample pics:
Real Steel


Quick Airsoft mock up of what the finished project would look like. Disregard scaling issues as this was a 10 minute MS Paint job.

[click]

Wow that looks like it will look awesome. Keep us posted.

Click

[2nd Bat]

Actually I guess I missed the pictures of your vx 24 conversion please post them in this thread for people to see. I think the G-3 is a much better base rifle for a MP44 Frankengun then the effort by shoot n skoot using the AK.

[ncthorn]

alright ill post pics as soon as I get home from school here in a little over an hour. I think you actually posted on the thread 2nd Bat. If anyone hasn't seen it and wants to right now it should be toward the bottom of the threads page and titled USR-11 >>> Vz.24 conversion.

Here is a pic of the version 1 Vz.24 I made. i have a new sturdier design planned for the ones i will sell.

[Tough Ombre]

A Stg shouldnt be to hard, even to manufacture your own parts. if you can make a samp for it.. it would be easy as pie. make the die set.. then stamp it onto cold steel. put the parts together. this could even be done w/ styene too a little more work. though then you wouldnt have to make a die I wouldnt be surprised if you could manufacture this gun. I would try it.. but i have too much as it is right now i want to build
-Cary

[cye]

Hey guys i just wanted to know, when i fit the 6mm barrel into the 8mm real steel Mosin Nagant barrel, what do i fit to wedge inbetween the barrel and the "outer" barrel so that the barrel of the VSR or w/e doesnt wobble, i want a real accurate rifle. thanks guys

EDIT: Oh, also i just found out that the Mosin's barrel length is like 730 mm and the VSR/USR is around 430mm...but seeing as people put the USR into a K98k's 600mm barrel, im a bit optimistic, but do you guys think that such a shortcoming will effect the performance of the rifle?
-Cye

[CharleyNovember]

Wrap tape around the inner barrel if you need to that should provide a buffer for you between the two. Barrel length problems depend on your Nagant model. I have a carbine and the two lengths match almost perfect from reciever on down.

[cye]

well do you think i should try adding a 6mm copper pipe to the barrel of the USR/VSR then? would that work?

[CharleyNovember]

I would not try to mate the VSR barrel with a peice of 6mm copper tubing. What model of Mosin do you have?

I have a 44 carbine but could easily make it into an earlier war 38 carbine by taking off the bayonet portion. The descriptions say as much on this page.
www.surplusrifle.com/mosincarbine/index.asp

If you have a full length Mosin I suggest you maybe sell it and buy a carbine version as they are pretty cheap. They are shorter and will make an easier conversion for you.

[CharleyNovember]

Also be advised that you will most likely have to have a RS MN barrel reamed out to fit the VSR inner barrel. A good gunsmith can probally do this for you and you should have a fairly tight fit. If you are just going to use a peice of pipe that is the right diameter of a RS barrel then you will need to wrap some tape around it. There is nothing wrong with the pipe method at all. Just make sure it looks good.

[cye]

alright...ill start off w/ a carbine conversion. Its just that i saw this guy make an awesome mosin conversion by taking a r/s mosin and making it C02. rather ingenious i might add, and i wanted to make something along the lines of that as i prefer 91/30's to m44's...but i like them both so i have no problem with it.
i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/Neuronaut/img11.jpg
i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/Neuronaut/img13.jpg

I have no clue whats going on in those photos but it seem slike a good alternative to putting a USR in a gun...iono any u guys no whats going on here?

Im guessing it cost this guy a applesauce load of money for it but iono he said he payed over 1000 for his mosin but then again lookin at the pics im guessing he has more than one...i would really like to have this type of AS gun...

[valtteri]

Mosin Nagant parts are readily available in Finland, and making some springer rifle into a Mosin (or more often, the Finnish rifles made around Mosin actions) is almost a commonplace here.

Real steel parts like receivers or barrels are banned here. So what we use is the stock, the handguard, the magazine/trigger guard, the sights and all the metal parts that connect to the stock. The barrel will be metal tubing and the action (what you can see above the stock and behind the rear sight) will not be modified, it'll be the airsoft rifle.

VSRs do not make nice bases. They and their copies are cheap, yes, but there'll be more work and the result will seldom be clean. APS-2 is the way to go - the biggest reason is that the positioning of the trigger and magazine fit pretty good into a Mosin Nagant stock, and the magazine is the most important thing. With VSR you will either have to cut the magazine of the Mosin-Nagant, or the magazine of the airsoft rifle, and anyways devise a new magazine catch, which will be lot of work and the result often is fragile & won't feed so well. With APS-2 the magazine well and catch are integral to the action and positioned so forward that no cutting of the original gun's magazine will be required, so all you need to do is cut a hole on the stock.

I've got two Mosin-Nagants - one Finnish M/39 Ukko-Pekka (Finnish Mauser style rifle built upon Mosin-Nagant receivers and bolts) made from APS-96 and one Mosin-Nagant M/91-30 made from APS-2 SV. Unfortunately I do not have pictures, but if you browse the galleries for our recent games, you will see some M/39 conversions by my friends.

Here's the galleries (They're made with flash, so I cannot link straight to the images)
www.kolumbus.fi/samu.sinervo/ifu3/
www.elisanet.fi/~d622618/IFU/
(Look for the 7th german image on the first gallery, that's a good shot of the rifle and it's maker. The same guy, with "tan and water" smock, helmet, custom-made mesh mask and a funny-looking face will appear later on both galleries and you can get a goot look of his rifle)

[CharleyNovember]

My first K98 conversion was with an APS2. I have a complete Mosin nagant and VSR10 and having taken them both apart and visually looked at the two I am fairly certain you can easily build it with a VSR10. I don't know for sure but I will let everyone know when I am done.

[cye]

thanks valterri yoU really sorted a lot of things out for me. but did u mean M38? because i am not aware of an m39...

edit: i saw the pic of the guy's 91/30...the gun looks great but the bolt hand sticks out like a sore thumb...is there any way i can straighten it like the real mosin or at least remove the grip-like part, leaving it bare, and add a bolt ball at the end to mask it as a sniper rifle? also...the ASP is like 250 bucks...how am i gonna keep the project under 200
? =[

[valtteri]

I know of no way of making a realiable bolt handle to go with a spring-upgraded rifle except machining it straight out of a steel block. Perhaps you can imagine that it's a sniper version, they came with longer, bent handles.

The bolt handle is not the only thing wrong, if you've gotten to look at a Mosin-Nagant receiver & bolt, it's nothing like any modern bolt action rifle. I'm sure somebody could make a very pretty look-a-like on that area too, that thing just wouldn't shoot or last.

Oh, almost forgot - don't get the APS-type 96. While the bolt looks nice and the boxy receiver is kind of cool, the magazine will protrude quite a bit from the stock, and it will look stupid. The type 96 is all I had when the guys made me my M/39. Looks very good without the mag, though

Here's a couple more pics of one of the M/39s. Bear in mind, this is a Finnish rifle, that's why it looks so odd. But the critical parts are just like M/91-30, so making one would be very same.

leka-airsoft.fi/etokuvat/pages/DSC01390.htm
i112.photobucket.com/albums/n185/sgt_dog/ETO_LaFerme/softorivesi021.jpg

[cye]

thanks but that still doesnt solve my money problem of an APS2...250$ isnt exactly easy money for a minor w/o a source of income...so what should i go for then? a VSR/USR-11 and M44/38 Carbine conversion for under $220 or an APS2 and M91/30 conversion for $330?

[CharleyNovember]

Cye~If you can wait for me to finish mine I will be able to confirm if it can acutally be done with a VSR10/USR11. If it can be done then you have your answer right.
Val is correct the APS2sv has a much easier sytem to use for mounting your magwell but it is taller than the VSR system it also does not have adjustable hop up. Some people like that and feel it is more stable. From shooting a USR11 straight out of the box today I have to say it shot pretty darn straight.

[valtteri]

It can be done with VSR-10 or it's clones, it's just harder and the end result propably isn't as pretty as with an APS. The height of an APS is no problem with a Mosin-Nagant. Most Finnish people do these with VSRs or clones, since they are much more available, but then again most of the coversions are quite crude

As said, the problem will be the magazine. Mosin Nagant has a tall one-row magazine that extends well below the stock, forms the trigger guard and is an important visual feature of the gun. The magazine of a VSR-10 is positioned so that putting the trigger in approximately the right place will force you to make a decision: either cut the real steel magazine or the airsoft magazine. Cutting the airsoft mag isn't impossible, it's just more work and gives you some 8 rounds of capacity, which will force you to get more mags and spend even more time. Cutting the real gun's mag will propably seriously affect the outlook of the gun. Some people don't even bother with the mag, which solves all the problems, but I wouldn't care to call the result a Mosin Nagant custom.
Also any custom stock will require you to make your own mag release for the VSR mags, which has very often given unreliable feed, difficult mag changes and weakened stock structure. But then again, anybody who has done a VSR mod before, has already encountered and solved this problem. The more you make these, the better the result will get.

Now I am fully confident that a capable person will be able to make a playable and good-looking Mosin Nagant with a VSR base, and if the budget is a deciding factor, then there are no alternatives. But having seen many these customs and talked to people who have converted both VSRs and APSes I will recommend the APS in every case you can afford it.

The funny thing is that the real steel parts required for this project retail some 30-60 euros in Finland