What power is too powerful?

[2nd Bat]

This discussion is common on most airsoft sites somewhere but is usually buried in past threads if not pinned. The call about acceptabilty is highly personal and has to be made and agreed to by the group you play with and to be truly responsible your group should have a chrono and use it.

Typical AEGs in stock condition typically fire at right around 370 to 290 FPS with .20 gram BBs. A 20 gram BB at 300 FPS can break bear exposed skin out to about 25 feet and chip teeth at considerably farther out. They lose alot of inertia beyond 25 feet. A heavier 25 gram BB doesn't leave the muzzle at as high a speed but due to it's additional weight represents a greater level of power. It also maintains inertia longer and will actual exceed the speed of a 20 gram when fired from the same gun after about 25 feet. Hence it actually will carry farther providing better range and be less influenced by wind and brush.

Upgraded guns can go pretty much the the sky's the limit for FPS but as they increase in power, dramatically reduce the guns reliability and durability. Most clubs limit fully automatic weapons to 380 FPS at the muzzle with 20 gram BBs. As the power goes up the ability to break skin at ever increasing range goes up as well.

Semi automatic and especially bolt action rifles are often limited to 550 FPS with a minimum engagement range of 75 feet. The reason for this is obvious. The BB from a 550 FPS rifle has considerably more power then a stock AEG.

I bring this up for the sake of encouraging standards and awareness. This is especially important with the types of historic play we typically do as often full face masks aren't used and the potential for nasty wounds are so much more likely. The good news is with historical play, ammo is usually limited, low caps and bolt action rifles are more common place and semi auto fire is often encouraged The result is, engagements are more realistic, often more sporatic and less voracious then a normal skirmish of spray and pray.

This minimizes the dangers but clearly doesn't eliminate them altogether. If your club hasn't done so already, performance standards are something to discuss and establish. I personally would like to see them tied to weapons capabilities with sub machine guns limited to stock aeg power and rifle munitions being capable of greater power insuring that the power limits are reasonable and safe. I've even heard folks suggest that sub machine guns should operate without hop up.

With the light weight of our ammunition the added range of a upgraded rifle is surprisingly mimimal but the damage capability, in close, goes up considerably. I am not a fan of mimimum engagement ranges where full face and mouth protection are in use but in our case where they generally aren't, I feel they have to be established and utilized.

What do others think?

[KippySmi7h]

I have my Thompson upgraded to 350 fps and use .25 gram bbs but I also use 20s. I don't think it's too powerful at all, just about right.

[Ripper]

These are the velocity rules that my organization, and several others in the Midwest use.
We are primarily a 'modern era' org. so things like DMR's and SAW's get some special attention.

A. FPS limits
-1. Weapons capable of full auto fire
--A. 400 FPS max for 6mm weapons measured with .2 gram bbs
--B. 337 FPS max for 8mm weapons measured with .34 gram bbs
-2. Designated Marksman Rifles (DMRs)/Semi-Auto Weapons
--A. 550 fps maximum (.20 gram bbs)
--B. 8mm and other weight bbs, just ask us and we can provide max FPS.
--C. Operators of DMRs must be approved by the KCAA board prior to using a DMR on the field.
---1. We must place the safety of players first
---2. Applicants must have played a minimum 4 KCAA games before applying for a DMR.
--D. Weapons using an external gas source must have a locked regulator to prevent field adjustment.
--E. Weapons converted from AEGs
---1. Must be semi auto only
----a. modified selector plate, weapon may not be easily converted to full auto.
----b. External permanent block preventing weapon going to full auto position.
-3. Support weapons.
--A. We will no longer be operating support weapons on separate rules from other AEGs.
--B. Weapons built under the previous 450 FPS rule shall be allowed until July 31st 2005 in order to give owners time to bring them in line with the new rules.

B. Engagement distances
-1. For all weapons capable of automatic fire 20 feet is considered minimum engagement range.
-2. For DMRs operating at 400-450 fps 40 feet is considered minimum engagement range
-3. For DMRs operating at 450-500 fps 60 feet is considered minimum engagement range
-4. For DMRs operating at 500-550 fps 80 feet is considered minimum engagement range.
-5. For 8mm DMRs and other weapons not covered here be sure to ask.
-6. Note that in CQB environments engagement distances will be shorter than typically allowed. Understand this and know that when you enter into a building you are waiving the minimum engagement distances.
--a. Aim low and for covered body parts.

We also do not allow the use of high-caps at all in our games UNLESS that is the only mag available for that platform. SAW's and MG's can only be represented by a replica or very good attempt at replicating that weapon. They are allowed box or drum mags as per the original. Hanging a C-mag drum and an MP5K and calling it an M60 won't cut it. ;D

[Sturmmann13]

darn no 750 fps super Kar for me...

AND no mp5 m60 awww man!

I keep mine under 415 at all times my new TM VSR-10 will be around 350 when I first get it (spring and piston will be replaced first) eventually I will get a precision barrel and a Kar 98k stock

[Ripper]

We really struggled with the SAW limits. Several of us had MG's that were built to run around 450, but they were almost constantly breaking down. It's 21 pounds of pure mean when it is running, but useless otherwise. My SAW would go through a set of gears and a piston about every 6-8 months. A friends RPK was about the same.
We also had some incidents were guys get lit up at relatively close range by one of these guns and almost had their hide stripped off by sustained bursts. Realistic, hell yes!!! Dangerous, you bet. Suppresive fire should NOT be fatal in airsofting. ;D
I've found that my SAW at 350 is more much usefull than it ever was at 450. The ROF is higher, and it doesn't destroy itself!

[Sturmmann13]

well, while were on this topic, should I get the 350fps upgrade or the 400 fps upgrade for my Marui VSR-10? both would be done by the people at redwolf. What would you recomend?

[2nd Bat]

For a VSR 10 which is a marksman style low rate of fire weapon I would go with the 400 FPs upgrade. I agree with the mindset of 350 for SAWs with emphasis on a good hop up system. Your range will be very very close to the higher FPS and as mentioned your reliability/ durability issues are dramatically improved. SAWs and MGs tend to get used more exahnustively then normal riflemen weapons. Longer sustained bursts so the stress on the internals is far greater.

The increased ROF helps substantially in the suppression support role. Glad to see other groups with fomalized rules that support a Mil Sim environment.

[biged]

Tolcom field is massive, with 500+ at a game we try to keep fun safe.
"400 fps is a limit, not a goal." -Ed

AEGS 400 fps w/.25 - No shots under 20 feet. Players under 16 must take safety course.
DMR 450 fps w/.25 - Aeg, semi-auto, 18+ years old, No shots under 100 feet, must take DM training course.
Sniper Rifles 500 fps w/.34 - Bolt action rifles, No shots under 100 feet, 18+ years old, must take Sniper training course.

You get a patch after you compete any course which must be worn while attending an event with your gun.

The greater the BB weight the more damage and pain it inflicts. A .25 gram bb traveling at 390fps will inflict the same amount of "sting" as a .20 gram bb traveling at 430 fps. At the chronograph we have .25 gram bb's to test. A gun shooting 415-425 with .20 gram bb's will shoot 380-395 with .25 gram bb's.

In debate rite now: Is MILSIM use of support weapons. Support weapons have box mags. A gun with a bi-pod is a support weapon. A support weapon is fired from a bi-pod. (Meaning you have to go prone to use a support weapon.) Also allowing support gunners to shoot 450fps w/.25.

Another MILSIM debate: Bunkered weapons. Weapons fired from tripods in bunkers or pill boxes. Hits would NOT COUNT on the gunner or support gunner by incomming fire. The only way to disable the gun would be to hit the "drop box" above the bunker.
A "Drop Box" is a box with multiple 1" diameter holes in it. Inside the box are piezo elements (sensors) that would detect a hit from a BB. When a good shot is detected. It will either cut the power to the gun OR turn on a strobe/light above the gunner's alerting them they are eliminated.

///ed///

[Ripper]

"Also allowing support gunners to shoot 450fps w/.25."

OUCH! And you want to have invincible gunners in bunkers behind these things? I don't think I'll be bringing that up at my groups next board meeting. ;D
We did discuss a similar rule such as yours about using tha bipod when firing. We decided that as long as the weapon was an acurate replica of it's real steel prototype, the gunner can use it as he see's fit. The bipod has to be there, but you don't have to use it. We have several guys that just got back from Iraq and carried SAW's. Removing the bipod is a fairly common mod with some units. They use the front RAS pistol grip to help weild it like a big, heavy rifle.

[imaheretic]

My 2 local sites :

Woodland:

AEG's - 345fps w/ 0.2g
Sniper rifles - 500fps w/ 0.2g 20m minimum engagement distance

Snipers can only carry 2 standard mags. AEG sniper rifles must have full auto disabled.

Urban:

AEG's - 328fps w/ 0.2g
Sniper rifles - 400fps w/ 0.2g 20m minimum engagement distance

Snipers can only carry 2 standard mags. AEG sniper rifles must have full auto disabled.

Everyone is chronoed before every skirmish. And random chronoing is done throughout the day.

[2nd Bat]

Interesting rules at TOLCOM Big Ed I don't follow the bi pod requirement fully or the bunker discussion but I like that folks are thinking outside the box and formalizing things. I would have no problem agreeing to and adhering to any of the rules thus far discussed. It's nice to see things spelled out clearly.

One challenge we've seen peoples inability to accurate determine what 20 feet is. Our local group had an excellent graphic which was a bright yellow rope with a yellow softball at the end (20 feet of rope) After asking everyone to estimate which object was 20 feet away and getting widely varied answers, they hurl out the rope and ball and then ask again. They do this at every briefing. I personally like the five foot engagement rule as it's easy to gauge and while some shots sting it reduces the challenges "bang bang kills" present.

[biged]

Allowing 450 fps support gunners is in debate (I would like to see 425 max). They would be limited and equal numbers for both sides. Support gunners would only be able to shoot from the prone position. They would also have to pass the support gunner course.

Bunkers or pillboxes would only allow one MG and one A-gunner in the bunker. The MG would be a mounted (tripod or bipod) weapon. The A-gunner cannot use a DM weapon or another MG only a normal aeg max 400fps. Each side would have an equal number of bunkers - most likely one per side.

The training courses that are held at the field are about safety and range estimation. If you fail the course you can take it again.

///ed///

[2nd Bat]

If you're going for a game atmosphere and a competition mindset insureing equal forces and comparably structured teams on both sides makes perfect sense. For Milsim scenarios I have found 3 to 1 or even 5 to one odds are far more realistic and make for more fluid and aggressive play. Naturally the outnumbered team has the advantage of time. (The offensive team has a strict time limit to accomplish whatever the mission is.)

I still don't quite get why the target on the bunkers are used, not the gunners inside but rather the target limiters ontop of the bunker since supression and it's psychological effects are a huge part tactics, but perhaps it's to avoid the super close in slit shots that might result?

[biged]

The targets or drop boxes are there to provide a realistic hard target. With the all the high-speed guns you can twirl a bb stream into a stick bunker and wipe out everyone behind it. If it were a sand bag bunker you just wait for a head to pop out. A mounted gun has an inherant disadvantage - mobility. Once it is spotted the gunner would become a easy target. The opposing players can still pumel the gunner with bb's but only eliminate the gun with a well placed shot. This is where DM guns and sniper rifles would become key.

A drop box can be made with sensors (currently in development) or cardboard box and a balloon. (A start another thread for that.)

///ed///

[ck]

As long as the strengths of each weapon type are somewhat realistic relative to each other, I'm satisfied... That, and of course realistic ammounts of ammo.

[Gordak]

I like to adhere to the effective range of the actual weapons, and realize battery voltage plays a part. YES, I typed the SAW part right, Not a typo.

mp5,. 270fps, 7.2 volt battery
m4a1 500 meters =270fps 8.4 volt battery
Saw, 600 meters( also 5.56mm), box mag, = 270fps high voltage battery
m60e3 800 meters, box mag, = 400 fps high voltage battery
m40a1 1000 meters, single shot, = 550 fps

I realize that there is no way we will ever enforce this, but I frimly believe its the correct way to do it.

I got my numbers from the department of defense

www.army.mil/fact_files_site/in_crew.html

it seems everyone in airsoft thinks their saws/rpks should shoot a higher fps than assault rifles, I think that's, ignorant and attacks the very point of playing airsoft with realisitc looking guns in the first place.
we can use battery voltage, and fps to regulate our guns to a realstic scale, its not hard, but greed, ignorance and envy have done milsim much harm

I realize milsim has MANY years before living up to its name, now I play ww2 and vietnam airsoft very happy now.

[2nd Bat]

I'm assuming you're talking .20 BBs?

I think some groups are well on their way to implementing such standards and it's great to see. Don't give up on your thoughts and never say never.

I'd step up the FPS for the .223 ammo somewhat (Maybe 320 FPS) over the 9mm MP5 or sub machine gun ammo of any kind. and allow the SAW a bit more oomph but otherwise I think you're right on. To follow your reasoning then I suppose that would put a 30 Cal, M-14, G3 at the 400FPS rating.

For some reason the Army has a higher effective range for the M60 today then it did in my day (Both Point and Area) I wondered if there is perhaps improved ammunition? 35 years later I suppose it might make sense? I also wonder why they give the SAW a longer effective range then the M-16 series with the same ammo unless it's simply the effect of sustained fire? (Not trivial by any means.)

There is no doubt historical airsoft whether it is WW2 or Vietnam when played well come much closer to anything that could accurately be described as MilSim but most games still have a good ways to go.

[biged]

Governing: battery size, BB weight, and FPS would also open up more debate.

Keeping the BB weight relative to the weight of the real-life round (or muzzle velocity) could also be thrown into the mix. Which would mean allowing the use of .28 gram bb's. Keeping the max FPS at 380 with .28 gram bb's which is 1.88 joules. A gun shooting 400 fps with .25 gram bb's is a 1.86 joules.

You could have: .20, .23, .25, .28 bb weights. The heavier the bb weight, the more accurate and the ability to punch through heavier foliage.

Joules = ( ( .5 * BBgrams / 1000 ) ) * ( ( FPS / 3.28 ) ^ 2 )

///ed///

[Gordak]

I was refering to .20s
i think bb weight doesnt make a big enough difference, .20s go faster .25s go slower/steadier, they are only relative to the gun's power. I think the spring and battery voltage is where it's at.
But then again, Im not the AEG guru Biged

I trust your judgement.

no matter what people will debate the crap out of it.

I need to get an mp5k, drum mag, 400fps, arm a whole team that way, that might piss them off enough to make a change.

better yet I do have plans to make a star trek phazer (im not a fan of the show at all) that uses a bv, an lrb, and a backpack tank and 1200 round tube magazine.

It would out range, out ROF, out supress all airsoft guns, and look sad, dorky and pathetic all at the same time.
if that doesnt evoke change, nothing will
-Gordak

[2nd Bat]

I have suggested the same thing as a way to elicit change and it seemed to resonate with a select group of players within the area. Generally the folks within the Historical airsoft community but to some degree with a modern MilSim oriented group as well. They are well on their way toward fairly rigid standards. Low caps exclusively except SAWs and limited power for sub machine guns (Stock)

The heavier BBs do present better penetration power through brush (marginal but worthwhile) and as mentioned are effected by wind far less. Interestingly as I have mentioned before 25 gram Bbs travel farther from the same gun (Counter intuitive but true) and with some gas powered sniper rifles heavier Bbs travel considerably faster even at the muzzle which makes safe chronoing challenging. (Measure at the weights used and translate the jouelles)

Tolcom obviously is ok with more powerful FPS then most but I am fine with their standards. A little pain from action pursuit games is not an altogther bad thing. The Hawaiian "shoot till the other guy says uncle." mindset is not my thing however.

Good discussion!

[crewchief]

Hope you don't mind my joining this discussion. I'm not a ballistics expert by any means, but...

I don't recall where I read it, but... IIRC 1 joule at pointblank is considered sufficient to break skin. Biged's formula differ's from the one I found on several physics site by the velosity modifier (his 3.28 vs mine 3.048) resulting in his calc'ing a little higher than mine. (which is correct isn't really important for the point I wish too make)

I point really is that bb weight vs fps is critical. If on bb weighs 25% more than another (.25 vs .20) then the muzzle energy is going to 25% greater as well. the main thing that causes the bb's velosity to drop over distance travelled is air friction. Since both bb's have effectively the same cross-section of 6mm, all other factors being equal, the one with less intial energy will run out first(ie the heavier one travelling farther for the same muzzle velosity).

If you adjust the allowed fps to at least match the allowable joules then your reducing the danger zone for the heavier rounds and still allowing some greater range.

It's not the best explination, but hopefully gets the point across.

[2nd Bat]

Turns out the ammo issued to SAW gunners currently is lot specific to a SAW. It can still use the M16 5.56mm rounds and an M16 could still use SAW ammo but ideally the plan is the M249 is designed to use the SAW 5.56mm ammo. Interestingly the SAW ammo has mixed grains (some greater and some less then the regualr 5.56mm.) In this way it creates a larger but fairly consistent cone of fire which makes it more effective for suppression fire which of course is what it's designed for. The greater effective range is strictly the result of the greater ability to maintain sustained fire on a point or area target. To replicate this an airsoft SAW gunner could fire a mixture of .23 and 25 ammo. (or perhaps 25 and 28 ammo)

Now, that's getting a bit too anal even in my book! But it shows how far this discussion could be taken.

[ck]

gordak said:

better yet I do have plans to make a star trek phazer (im not a fan of the show at all) that uses a bv, an lrb, and a backpack tank and 1200 round tube magazine.

It would out range, out ROF, out supress all airsoft guns, and look sad, dorky and pathetic all at the same time.
if that doesnt evoke change, nothing will
-Gordak

;D

[TommyGunner]

Wow, you know I have never thought of all the different types of standards that could be set, it seems that there are so many ways we can reglate our weapons, I guess its only a matter of time now before thigns start becomeing more uniformed.

Oh and speaking of shoot till the other guy says uncle, I have a story, alright my friend has an Mp-5 and I have my M1A1 we decided that we would play shorts and t-shirts with no minimum engagment range (and you bet we wore full paintball masks for this one) basically the game ended up with both us us, our guns with hicaps loaded running around my suberban trying to get pop shots at eachother. We both quit becuase of the pain, and horrible bloody welts, from STOCK GUNS! That was the experiance that made me very in favor of strict engament rules and stock AEGs in games.

But I digress, back to the subject of the thread.

TommyGunner

[biged]

Crewchief,
I got the formula after a discussion poped up 2003-2004 about this very same subject.
I've been using it ever since. I'm good at math and writing computer code, but I'm not a physics major.

If it has been re-calculated could you post a link.

My original formula (3.28)

BB's Grams
FPS 0.12 0.20 0.23 0.25 0.28 0.29 0.30 0.32 0.34 0.36 0.40 0.43 0.45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
250 0.35 0.58 0.67 0.73 0.81 0.84 0.87 0.93 0.99 1.05 1.16 1.25 1.31
260 0.38 0.63 0.72 0.79 0.88 0.91 0.94 1.01 1.07 1.13 1.26 1.35 1.41
270 0.41 0.68 0.78 0.85 0.95 0.98 1.02 1.08 1.15 1.22 1.36 1.46 1.52
280 0.44 0.73 0.84 0.91 1.02 1.06 1.09 1.17 1.24 1.31 1.46 1.57 1.64
290 0.47 0.78 0.90 0.98 1.09 1.13 1.17 1.25 1.33 1.41 1.56 1.68 1.76
300 0.50 0.84 0.96 1.05 1.17 1.21 1.25 1.34 1.42 1.51 1.67 1.80 1.88
310 0.54 0.89 1.03 1.12 1.25 1.30 1.34 1.43 1.52 1.61 1.79 1.92 2.01
320 0.57 0.95 1.09 1.19 1.33 1.38 1.43 1.52 1.62 1.71 1.90 2.05 2.14
330 0.61 1.01 1.16 1.27 1.42 1.47 1.52 1.62 1.72 1.82 2.02 2.18 2.28
340 0.64 1.07 1.24 1.34 1.50 1.56 1.61 1.72 1.83 1.93 2.15 2.31 2.42
350 0.68 1.14 1.31 1.42 1.59 1.65 1.71 1.82 1.94 2.05 2.28 2.45 2.56
360 0.72 1.20 1.39 1.51 1.69 1.75 1.81 1.93 2.05 2.17 2.41 2.59 2.71
370 0.76 1.27 1.46 1.59 1.78 1.85 1.91 2.04 2.16 2.29 2.54 2.74 2.86
380 0.81 1.34 1.54 1.68 1.88 1.95 2.01 2.15 2.28 2.42 2.68 2.89 3.02
390 0.85 1.41 1.63 1.77 1.98 2.05 2.12 2.26 2.40 2.54 2.83 3.04 3.18
400 0.89 1.49 1.71 1.86 2.08 2.16 2.23 2.38 2.53 2.68 2.97 3.20 3.35
410 0.94 1.56 1.80 1.95 2.19 2.27 2.34 2.50 2.66 2.81 3.13 3.36 3.52
420 0.98 1.64 1.89 2.05 2.30 2.38 2.46 2.62 2.79 2.95 3.28 3.53 3.69
430 1.03 1.72 1.98 2.15 2.41 2.49 2.58 2.75 2.92 3.09 3.44 3.70 3.87
440 1.08 1.80 2.07 2.25 2.52 2.61 2.70 2.88 3.06 3.24 3.60 3.87 4.05
450 1.13 1.88 2.16 2.35 2.64 2.73 2.82 3.01 3.20 3.39 3.76 4.05 4.24
460 1.18 1.97 2.26 2.46 2.75 2.85 2.95 3.15 3.34 3.54 3.93 4.23 4.43
470 1.23 2.05 2.36 2.57 2.87 2.98 3.08 3.29 3.49 3.70 4.11 4.41 4.62
480 1.28 2.14 2.46 2.68 3.00 3.11 3.21 3.43 3.64 3.85 4.28 4.60 4.82
490 1.34 2.23 2.57 2.79 3.12 3.24 3.35 3.57 3.79 4.02 4.46 4.80 5.02
500 1.39 2.32 2.67 2.90 3.25 3.37 3.49 3.72 3.95 4.18 4.65 5.00 5.23
510 1.45 2.42 2.78 3.02 3.38 3.51 3.63 3.87 4.11 4.35 4.84 5.20 5.44
520 1.51 2.51 2.89 3.14 3.52 3.64 3.77 4.02 4.27 4.52 5.03 5.40 5.66
530 1.57 2.61 3.00 3.26 3.66 3.79 3.92 4.18 4.44 4.70 5.22 5.61 5.87
540 1.63 2.71 3.12 3.39 3.79 3.93 4.07 4.34 4.61 4.88 5.42 5.83 6.10
550 1.69 2.81 3.23 3.51 3.94 4.08 4.22 4.50 4.78 5.06 5.62 6.05 6.33


New formula (3.048)

BB's Grams
FPS 0.12 0.20 0.23 0.25 0.28 0.29 0.30 0.32 0.34 0.36 0.40 0.43 0.45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
250 0.40 0.67 0.77 0.84 0.94 0.98 1.01 1.08 1.14 1.21 1.35 1.45 1.51
260 0.44 0.73 0.84 0.91 1.02 1.06 1.09 1.16 1.24 1.31 1.46 1.56 1.64
270 0.47 0.78 0.90 0.98 1.10 1.14 1.18 1.26 1.33 1.41 1.57 1.69 1.77
280 0.51 0.84 0.97 1.05 1.18 1.22 1.27 1.35 1.43 1.52 1.69 1.81 1.90
290 0.54 0.91 1.04 1.13 1.27 1.31 1.36 1.45 1.54 1.63 1.81 1.95 2.04
300 0.58 0.97 1.11 1.21 1.36 1.40 1.45 1.55 1.65 1.74 1.94 2.08 2.18
310 0.62 1.03 1.19 1.29 1.45 1.50 1.55 1.66 1.76 1.86 2.07 2.22 2.33
320 0.66 1.10 1.27 1.38 1.54 1.60 1.65 1.76 1.87 1.98 2.20 2.37 2.48
330 0.70 1.17 1.35 1.47 1.64 1.70 1.76 1.88 1.99 2.11 2.34 2.52 2.64
340 0.75 1.24 1.43 1.56 1.74 1.80 1.87 1.99 2.12 2.24 2.49 2.68 2.80
350 0.79 1.32 1.52 1.65 1.85 1.91 1.98 2.11 2.24 2.37 2.64 2.83 2.97
360 0.84 1.40 1.60 1.74 1.95 2.02 2.09 2.23 2.37 2.51 2.79 3.00 3.14
370 0.88 1.47 1.69 1.84 2.06 2.14 2.21 2.36 2.51 2.65 2.95 3.17 3.32
380 0.93 1.55 1.79 1.94 2.18 2.25 2.33 2.49 2.64 2.80 3.11 3.34 3.50
390 0.98 1.64 1.88 2.05 2.29 2.37 2.46 2.62 2.78 2.95 3.27 3.52 3.68
400 1.03 1.72 1.98 2.15 2.41 2.50 2.58 2.76 2.93 3.10 3.44 3.70 3.88
410 1.09 1.81 2.08 2.26 2.53 2.62 2.71 2.90 3.08 3.26 3.62 3.89 4.07
420 1.14 1.90 2.18 2.37 2.66 2.75 2.85 3.04 3.23 3.42 3.80 4.08 4.27
430 1.19 1.99 2.29 2.49 2.79 2.89 2.99 3.18 3.38 3.58 3.98 4.28 4.48
440 1.25 2.08 2.40 2.60 2.92 3.02 3.13 3.33 3.54 3.75 4.17 4.48 4.69
450 1.31 2.18 2.51 2.72 3.05 3.16 3.27 3.49 3.71 3.92 4.36 4.69 4.90
460 1.37 2.28 2.62 2.85 3.19 3.30 3.42 3.64 3.87 4.10 4.56 4.90 5.12
470 1.43 2.38 2.73 2.97 3.33 3.45 3.57 3.80 4.04 4.28 4.76 5.11 5.35
480 1.49 2.48 2.85 3.10 3.47 3.60 3.72 3.97 4.22 4.46 4.96 5.33 5.58
490 1.55 2.58 2.97 3.23 3.62 3.75 3.88 4.14 4.39 4.65 5.17 5.56 5.81
500 1.61 2.69 3.09 3.36 3.77 3.90 4.04 4.31 4.57 4.84 5.38 5.79 6.05
510 1.68 2.80 3.22 3.50 3.92 4.06 4.20 4.48 4.76 5.04 5.60 6.02 6.30
520 1.75 2.91 3.35 3.64 4.07 4.22 4.37 4.66 4.95 5.24 5.82 6.26 6.55
530 1.81 3.02 3.48 3.78 4.23 4.38 4.54 4.84 5.14 5.44 6.05 6.50 6.80
540 1.88 3.14 3.61 3.92 4.39 4.55 4.71 5.02 5.34 5.65 6.28 6.75 7.06
550 1.95 3.26 3.74 4.07 4.56 4.72 4.88 5.21 5.54 5.86 6.51 7.00 7.33


Calculating Joules is not only a great way to show how much more stress can be place on a gearbox. But is also a good way to show how much more pain/damage/sting can be inflicted.

Keeping the game safe is key.

///ed///

[CharleyNovember]

Jumping Jane on a Pogo Stick I'm glad we have people like you around that Enjoy math. MAth is a necessary evil to me.

[crewchief]

I feel like an idiot!!! Beged your value of 3.28 is correct. It's the conversion factor from meters to feet. The pocket calender I was using last year had a conversions chart that I took as correct instead of validating. I know better, I'm a programmer as well.

Dan, once I found the formula for calculating joules all that was left was to get mass and velocity to the same format (metric or standard). From there it's just a simple spreadsheet formula that you plug in the bb's weight and and fps and let the computer determine energy.

[killbucket]

Thanks for the great info tables!
So simple the way it's laid out.
Another way to convince yourself to upgrade. Somebody's selling me a spring tomorrow. And some bushings. And some shims. And a nice piston. and...Oh, the sickness.

Ditto on the glad somebody payed attention in math class while I was staring at Theresa Haasl. I love video games!

[biged]

Crewchief, That's a relief - I just thought I was giving the wrong info for four years.
I wrote the code in libertybasic 4.03. I can blast out text & I/O serial functions in liberty faster than I can cut & paste in excel.

It's difficult to try and explain what joules is to airsofters. You can simply tell someone you can shoot whatever weight bb you want as long as you keep the gun in the 1.8 to 1.9 joules range. This also applies to gas guns and 8mm bb's.

///ed///

[Gordak]

so, bb weight doesnt matter so long as the same force is being applied,

thus just giving everyone a fps limit with .20 bbs, would be all that is needed.

and make sure they have .20s in the gun when they are chrono-ing

isnt that the simplest way to regulate?