JazzyJ
Private
Verdammt! Die Suchfuktion zeigt mir nichts!
Posts: 64
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Post by JazzyJ on Oct 6, 2008 14:30:54 GMT -5
Hey guys....really don't want to sound like a noob here but, let's face it I am!  Was taking a look at this very useful link supplied by "click" here on the boards and saw that this site suggested buying a british service shirt since they are fairly inexpensive and since it is worn under a smock, no one really is going to see it. Were they suggesting wearing a service shirt in place of a tunic? I am mostly interested in a panzer ss impression and being from Southern California where cold weather is virtually non existant, this sounds like a good idea. Am I correct in my thinking? Thank you all! Link: www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/pages/ss-kit-guide3.html-Justin |
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Post by ottoss on Oct 6, 2008 15:58:04 GMT -5
if ur goin to join a ss unit.. and its too hot for wool then dont buy any..
Most of the time all i wear is my service shirt, and my smock.
And if ur looking for a smock let me know i got one for sale real cheap.
shane
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JazzyJ
Private
Verdammt! Die Suchfuktion zeigt mir nichts!
Posts: 64
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Post by JazzyJ on Oct 6, 2008 17:46:44 GMT -5
In this case, the picture shows a man wearing his wool ss tunic under his Dot44 HBT. Was the site suggesting to wear the service shirt under a smock only?
Also....(prepare for noob question) what does HBT stand for?
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 6, 2008 17:59:25 GMT -5
Herring Bone Twill. It is a hit weather material use by both sides. I think you may boil in a tunic and pull over smock in your local.
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Post by Ripper on Oct 6, 2008 18:08:29 GMT -5
The DOT HBTs were meant to be worn as a stand-alone garment (over the service shirt) in the summer or over the wool uniform in cold weather. The smock is worn in similar fashion. The smock is primarily meant to be worn over the tunic, but you will see many,many pictures of it being worn over a service shirt in summer weather. Especially in Southern Russia.
I was at a blank-fire event last month and the temps were in the mid-upper 80's. All of the guys wearing smocks (me included) wore service shirts without a tunic under our smocks. The rest of the unit was in either DOTs or straight feldgrau. Smocks are made of the same material as a zeltbahn and you sweat your ass off when you have it on in warm temps. They are water/wind resistant and do not breath.
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JazzyJ
Private
Verdammt! Die Suchfuktion zeigt mir nichts!
Posts: 64
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Post by JazzyJ on Oct 6, 2008 18:21:12 GMT -5
I eventually want to get both a feldgrau SS tunic and the Dot HBT. I'm on a budget right now and really dig the camo top and feldgrau trousers look. However, I don't really want to wear both the tunic and the HBT tunic as I have seen in most winter pics. Was wondering if it was okay (accurate) to wear a service shirt under a DOT HBT tunic? Also, is there anything else (insignia-wise) that is sewn onto a DOT tunic besides the sleeve eagle? Thank you guys for your patience. I'm trying to learn as quickly as possible. Have some books coming in the mail so that will help answer a lot of my noob questions! LOL
*edit* I suppose I should have titled this thread "under a DOT tunic: Service shirt in place of feldgrau tunic"
*Ottoss: PM with price and possible pics on that smock as well. I am only interested in the DOT44 pattern at the moment though!
Thanks!
-Justin
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Post by Ripper on Oct 6, 2008 18:30:37 GMT -5
OK, the service shirt is meant to be worn under ALL types of tunics. It is meant to be an undergarment. However, you will see pictures of guys wearing an HBT tunic with the collar unbuttoned and no service shirt visible. Most likely they are wearing a tank-top style undershirt or nothing under it.
Uniform regulations forbid any insignia being worn on camo uniforms but that was pretty much universaly ignored. While many camo tunics left the factory with sleeve eagles already attached, others did not. Only the limited issued Oak-A/B camo uniforms came from the factory with shoulder loops but you see pictures of them added in the field to DOT HBT's.
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JazzyJ
Private
Verdammt! Die Suchfuktion zeigt mir nichts!
Posts: 64
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Post by JazzyJ on Oct 6, 2008 19:15:41 GMT -5
Okay...thank you ripper (and others!) for clearifing! I noticed some companies were throwing in the shoulder boards for the camo tunics for free.  I never recalled seeing many of these on the camo tunics. I don't think I will be putting anything but the sleeve eagle on mine. |
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Post by kilroy9thss on Oct 6, 2008 21:11:57 GMT -5
just cut the buttons off and shoulder board loops off u will never use them and the buttons hurt when ur y strapes r right over them
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Post by Ripper on Oct 6, 2008 21:21:42 GMT -5
If you are going to go with Dot HBT's for your uniform, DO NOT buy a dot pattern M43 cap or helmet cover. They did not exist and are complete fabrications made up for the replica market.
Use an Oak-A/B or blurred edge pattern helmet cover for a more correct late war look. The Plane tree patterns were also still in use, but not as common as the oak patterns for late war issue.
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JazzyJ
Private
Verdammt! Die Suchfuktion zeigt mir nichts!
Posts: 64
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Post by JazzyJ on Oct 7, 2008 13:17:47 GMT -5
No no no! I only plan on wearing the camo tunic. My trousers and hat/helmet will be the usual feldgrau. I might from time to time where a camo helmet cover but then I will swith to my feldgrau tunic and pants and only have a camo helmet. I don't get why everyone wears so much camo anyways. I like the way it looks but only if just a tunic or just the trousers are worn.
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Post by Ripper on Oct 7, 2008 13:29:01 GMT -5
Smocks and helmet covers were meant to be used together. That is how you commonly see SS men when not in full feldgrau.
The 'too much' camo argument is very valid for early war scenario's, but who actually plays those?? By late war, you will see a mix of all patterns of wool uniforms and numerous camo uniforms/items in use. Guys that are dug in and constantly on the defensive are going to use whatever they can get their hands on to try and stay alive a little bit longer. Supply deliveries were erratic, so seeing multiple types/patterns within a squad was very common. You wore whatever was handed to you by supply, or you picked off somebody that no longer needed it.
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Ungar
Private
Blut und Ehre
Posts: 227
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Post by Ungar on Oct 7, 2008 15:41:54 GMT -5
Smocks and helmet covers were meant to be used together. That is how you commonly see SS men when not in full feldgrau. The 'too much' camo argument is very valid for early war scenario's, but who actually plays those?? By late war, you will see a mix of all patterns of wool uniforms and numerous camo uniforms/items in use. Guys that are dug in and constantly on the defensive are going to use whatever they can get their hands on to try and stay alive a little bit longer. Supply deliveries were erratic, so seeing multiple types/patterns within a squad was very common. You wore whatever was handed to you by supply, or you picked off somebody that no longer needed it. a huge +1 to that sir! I don't like the camo bashing of reanactors. I completely agree when its in the early war context but by '43 anybody who could get their hands on camo would use them. Be it rich parrents or good connections with factory or just fortune of being issued stuff. As for not wearing your tunic but only the smock, is normal in hot weather enviroments, depending on officers. But yes, officers let their men wear few stuff when in the heat of battle. Because not only is the weather hot, but miscellaneous things can add to the heat, such as burning vegetation, thick heavy air filled with smoke, burning wreckages. I can just imagine the smell of burning oil in the air at Kursk, besideds the scorching heat.  |
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JazzyJ
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Verdammt! Die Suchfuktion zeigt mir nichts!
Posts: 64
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Post by JazzyJ on Oct 8, 2008 0:17:48 GMT -5
I wasn't really intending on "bashing" the reeanctors for wearing lots of camo and surely I can understand your point about supplies. It's a pretty well known fact for me already in the very little time that I've been researching that it is sort of a fend for oneself idea behind most of the gear. For me, it's a to each their own opinion on looks and by no means did I mean any disrespect. I believe we are getting off topic here so, I will ask if anyone has a link to any sites selling some decent, fairly inexpensive service shirts. I plan on purchasing both feldgrau and camo tops and bottoms in order to have the ability to "mix and match" but I would need a service shirt in either case. Thank you guys for your imput. You're making my journey into not being a noob that much easier!  |
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Ungar
Private
Blut und Ehre
Posts: 227
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Post by Ungar on Oct 8, 2008 5:58:06 GMT -5
I wasn't really intending on "bashing" the reeanctors for wearing lots of camo NONONO! I didn't aim it towards you! If you understood it that way, my apologis!! In General some re-enactor are just like that. Right now I am heading to work, but as a quick suggestion, you might take a look at atthefront.com for some service shirts! |
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JazzyJ
Private
Verdammt! Die Suchfuktion zeigt mir nichts!
Posts: 64
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Post by JazzyJ on Oct 8, 2008 10:17:34 GMT -5
I wasn't really intending on "bashing" the reeanctors for wearing lots of camo NONONO! I didn't aim it towards you! If you understood it that way, my apologis!! In General some re-enactor are just like that. Right now I am heading to work, but as a quick suggestion, you might take a look at atthefront.com for some service shirts! No, I didn't take it that way but, I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't directly attacking anyone either. Just trying to put the flames out before they start you know. Plus, I'm new here and I certainly don't want to wear out my welcome. I don't like having enemies either. Especially those who are involved in WWII recreation and airsoft!!!! |
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Gerry
Master sergeant 
Wilkommen zu Italien!
Posts: 819
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Post by Gerry on Oct 9, 2008 7:53:50 GMT -5
Interesting thing in this picture... The SS man in the foreground has what appears to be cavalry or Fallschirmjager Y straps as well as a side arm. I have read that these were issued not only to fallschirmjagers but to officers and cavalry in the regular infantry, though I have seen no photographic evidence of such! Cool!! Smocks and helmet covers were meant to be used together. That is how you commonly see SS men when not in full feldgrau. The 'too much' camo argument is very valid for early war scenario's, but who actually plays those?? By late war, you will see a mix of all patterns of wool uniforms and numerous camo uniforms/items in use. Guys that are dug in and constantly on the defensive are going to use whatever they can get their hands on to try and stay alive a little bit longer. Supply deliveries were erratic, so seeing multiple types/patterns within a squad was very common. You wore whatever was handed to you by supply, or you picked off somebody that no longer needed it. a huge +1 to that sir! I don't like the camo bashing of reanactors. I completely agree when its in the early war context but by '43 anybody who could get their hands on camo would use them. Be it rich parrents or good connections with factory or just fortune of being issued stuff. As for not wearing your tunic but only the smock, is normal in hot weather enviroments, depending on officers. But yes, officers let their men wear few stuff when in the heat of battle. Because not only is the weather hot, but miscellaneous things can add to the heat, such as burning vegetation, thick heavy air filled with smoke, burning wreckages. I can just imagine the smell of burning oil in the air at Kursk, besideds the scorching heat. |
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mccallion
Private 1st Class
Official Road Sign Reader (retired)
Posts: 770
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Post by mccallion on Oct 9, 2008 8:26:38 GMT -5
very intresting picure the 3rd guy in from the left has a bayonet frog but no bayonet
mccallion
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Post by Capt. Zak on Oct 9, 2008 10:27:45 GMT -5
The lightweight y-straps were issued to FJ's and cavalry as well as non-combat troops. They were common among officers, police units, as well as vehicle & motorcycle drivers.
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Post by ww2reenactor on Oct 13, 2008 8:23:38 GMT -5
The lightweight y-straps were issued to FJ's and cavalry as well as non-combat troops. They were common among officers, police units, as well as vehicle & motorcycle drivers. and luftwaffe field divisions |
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Was taking a look at this very useful link supplied by "click" here on the boards and saw that this site suggested buying a british service shirt since they are fairly inexpensive and since it is worn under a smock, no one really is going to see it. Were they suggesting wearing a service shirt in place of a tunic? I am mostly interested in a panzer ss impression and being from Southern California where cold weather is virtually non existant, this sounds like a good idea. Am I correct in my thinking? Thank you all!
I never recalled seeing many of these on the camo tunics. I don't think I will be putting anything but the sleeve eagle on mine.
