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Post by sir veilance on Nov 26, 2008 13:49:08 GMT -5
Ever since I saw the movie "Where Eagles Dare" I have wanted a set of German WW2 reversible snow camo. As I recall from the movie it was the white to tan and water type. From what I understand that was a pretty rare, and that the white to splinter and the white to gray was much more common. My primary impression is Luftwaffe FJ. I know they wore mostly white to gray and early on had their own version that was quilted. Some examples show the quilting as squares and some show a diamond quilting pattern. Did they use both? As I plan on usuing the snow camo for a late war FJ impression and the fact that I would like to be able to use the same reversible camo for a Heer impression, as well as the fact that I love the Tan and Water version, ala Where Eagles Dare......... Would the Tan and Water version be acceptable for late war FJ's? Would the Splinter version be acceptable for late war FJ's? I have seen only one photo of an FJ wearing a snow camo suit with the splinter side out. The trouble with most photos is that when someone is wearing the stuff it is usually white side out and is very hard to tell what is on the reverse side  The next questions is who has bought what from where. I hear that Spearhead makes a quality set, has anyone bought what Trident sells, or what Hessen has to offer? I noticed the cheapest price out there is from Collectors Armoury. They have the Tan and Water version, tops and bottom for only $59 each. That is the best price I have seen, if they are any good  Thanks in advance for any comments!! |
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Post by Ripper on Nov 26, 2008 19:43:30 GMT -5
For late war FJ's wearing snow camo, I'd go with the M43 or M44 marsh. I'm not aware of anything ever being made with Splinter B on one side, white on the other. Some of the FJ reenactors on here may be able to confirm/deny it's existance. I have one of the Spearhead sets in marsh pattern and it is sweet. Pretty bulky and heavy, but warm. BTW, I have seen it posted on several sites that the parka's used in the movie were created especially for that movie. More or less..fantasyflage. However, here is a link to a site that makes them ;D www.ebolcastle.co.uk/extremecc/wed.htm |
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Post by Ripper on Nov 26, 2008 19:53:37 GMT -5
Here is a shot of my Spearhead M44 marsh camo. It is a bit darker than the M43 varient.  And a completely Flaggrantly Wrong Splinter B parka that Spearhead made a few years ago. I bought it cheap when they were getting rid of it. I can't wear it at any 'real' events, but it looks cool as hell. ;D  |
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Post by sir veilance on Nov 26, 2008 20:17:41 GMT -5
For late war FJ's wearing snow camo, I'd go with the M43 or M44 marsh. I'm not aware of anything ever being made with Splinter B on one side, white on the other. Right, there was no Splinter B on these, I was referring to the standard Splinter A pattern reversible parkas. According to "1944 Militaria's " website....... www.1944militaria.com/heer_luftwaffe_camo.htm........they were issued to Luftwaffe personnel. But that doesn't mean they are right or FJ's were issued them ;D I like the M43's over the M44 pattern but most places don't differentiate what they have on their webpage and it's hard to tell in their photos as well  BTW, I have seen it posted on several sites that the parka's used in the movie were created especially for that movie. More or less..fantasyflage. However, here is a link to a site that makes them ;D I knew the uniforms in the movie were not totally accurate, I really didn't even remember seeing anyone wearing them camo side out. Looking at that still of Richard Burton on that website you can really see how bad they are. But I have to say the reproductions that guy is making look even worse  |
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Post by sir veilance on Nov 26, 2008 20:25:26 GMT -5
Here is a shot of my Spearhead M44 marsh camo. It is a bit darker than the M43 varient. Thanks for the photos and the info! I remember you saying you were happy with the quality of a Spearhead parka you had bought. I'll have to check to see if he makes them in the M43 version!!! |
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Ungar
Private
Blut und Ehre
Posts: 227
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Post by Ungar on Nov 26, 2008 21:17:26 GMT -5
I say you better off going with Stumpftarn.
The only splinter parkas that were made used Splinter "A", which the Luftwaffe didn't use as a service uniform, I believe. Only the more refined Luftwaffe Splinter "B".
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Post by kilroy9thss on Nov 26, 2008 23:01:44 GMT -5
u should dirt up the white side and paint it  dont see that many re-enacotrs do that |
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Nov 27, 2008 5:57:47 GMT -5
I read the white side was painted too... Mines slightly off white on the inside and sumpmuster on the outside (although lighter than the above). In the film they wear them camo side out when they go into the bar. The actors in 'the eagle has landed' also wear the same parkas in the Poland scenes. Its pretty much the reason i bought one, mines pretty warm too. Not the greatest chinese repro but does the job.  and.. (ignore post war trousers please, this was a very early loadout)  |
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Post by Ripper on Nov 27, 2008 11:29:46 GMT -5
The Heer Sumpfmuster pattern is kinda hard to pin down colorwise. The original was just a variation of Splinter A with slightly blurred edges. Then, the Germans reversed the placement of the colors for the next batch. The finalized M43 Sumpf is 'brighter' than M44, but can be seen with smooth or blurred edges. The finaled M44 (blurred) version is what I have and can be seen in both light and dark patterns. Mine is well worn and doesn't look as dark in natural light as it did in the pics, but it is still darker than many vendors versions that they call Tan and Water. The pants are really too heavy/cumbersome to use for long periods of time but are damn handy if you are going to be standing around a good bit.
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Post by sir veilance on Nov 27, 2008 11:47:38 GMT -5
I wish the places that sell it had more accurate photos of what they sell! The pattern and shade I'd like, is just what Gadge has, on his parka, in his photos. I just wish there was a "Big Box" store called "Uncle Adolph's" that stocked all the German WW2 gear thats on the market, in every size and every pattern ;D I'd almost rather have that, than my own Sdkfz 251....well almost " Would you like a pair of cross country ski's with that winter 44 loadout?"..........  |
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Post by shadycadence on Nov 27, 2008 12:46:40 GMT -5
I just wish there was a "Big Box" store called "Uncle Adolph's" that stocked all the German WW2 gear thats on the market, in every size and every pattern ;D Duly noted, and agreed. If I win some big Powerball, I'm hiring YOU to run it!  |
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Post by Ripper on Nov 27, 2008 15:15:38 GMT -5
BTW, according to my Wehrmacht cammo book, the parka's used in Where Eagles Dare were based on an actual experimental design that dates to 1943. The book even has pictures of the real deal next to the ones from the movie. The design was never general issue but was part of the Splinter to Sumpfsmuster transition trials.
Like anything else German, the colors and actual pattern on their overgarments vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and they made NO differentiation between types. It's just 'cammo' and nothing more.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Nov 27, 2008 15:50:48 GMT -5
I think mine was from an incredibly budget chinese company called 'chinabest' on ebay.
About GBP £50
Its not a great repro the 'pebbled' buttons are plastic etc..
Does me for airsoft though.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 28, 2008 0:48:47 GMT -5
For FJ Gray and Splinter A parks are good to go. My unit uses both. Personally I use a Grey to white for my FJ impression
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Post by flectarn on Nov 28, 2008 2:17:52 GMT -5
Although camo is cool, and is effective; I would say mouse grey is the best choice. You could use it from the winter for '42 onwards. It was also issued to all branches so, if you go from FJ to ss , etc, It will still be correct..
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Post by mikkel on Nov 28, 2008 8:19:44 GMT -5
The SS issue grey reversible have scalloped pockets.
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Post by flectarn on Nov 28, 2008 19:38:51 GMT -5
That is correct however; the ss was issued grey heer parkas on a very limited scale. Supply issues im sure. Thats also why every so often you see an ss soldat in a heer tunic..
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Post by kilroy9thss on Nov 28, 2008 21:54:57 GMT -5
heres a few pics of my buddies ss issued parka   green/white, and on one of the sleeves its has a strip of plain tree cloth for a patch |
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Post by ottoss on Dec 1, 2008 12:59:33 GMT -5
What do u guys think about the blurred edge parka?
Did they use them in late war?
Shane
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Post by Ripper on Dec 1, 2008 19:10:36 GMT -5
The SS issued parka's in Mouse Gray(early) , Oak A, Oak B and Blurred Edge commonly and Dot44 in limited numbers at the end of the war.
Blurred Edge and Oak A were by far the most commonly seen.
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Post by ww2reenactor on Dec 4, 2008 16:00:02 GMT -5
BTW, according to my Wehrmacht cammo book, the parka's used in Where Eagles Dare were based on an actual experimental design that dates to 1943. The book even has pictures of the real deal next to the ones from the movie. The design was never general issue but was part of the Splinter to Sumpfsmuster transition trials. Like anything else German, the colors and actual pattern on their overgarments vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and they made NO differentiation between types. It's just 'cammo' and nothing more. accually they used the real prototypes in that movie and if u notice they changed parkas about midway throught b.c. someone stole all of them |
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Dec 4, 2008 16:51:11 GMT -5
Thats quite an interesting story, they have identical ones in 'the eagle has landed' so as that was filmed a good while after i assume they must be wearing the same replacements.
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Post by sir veilance on Dec 5, 2008 18:42:25 GMT -5
In my research, I have noticed two types of reversible snow suits worn by Fallschirmjagers in photos and illustrations. In one photo you can see quilting in the smocks and pants that are diamond shaped and in another photo you could see quilting that is squares. Other photos either there was no quilting or the photo was over exposed a bit and the white was so bright any quilting on the uniforms was invisible.
Not that Spearhead, is the quintessential reference for what is correct or not. I just noticed that they are selling three types of FJ snow parkas in Field Grey reversible to White. What Spearhead calls "Type 1" has diamond pattern quilting, "Type 2" has square quilting and the "Type 3" has diamond shaped quilting again, but in a much smaller pattern than the "Type 1" has. They also have a "Luftwaffe" parka in White to Blue grey and the Heer/SS in White to Mouse Grey parkas. In the Blue Grey and the Mouse Grey parkas there is no quilting pattern visible.
Were the FJ parkas and pants the only reversible winter uniforms used by the Germans in WW2 that had a quilting pattern in the material? Quilting is not visible, in any photos I have seen of the Splinter A or Tan and Water or any of the SS patterns either!! Can anyone else verify this?
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Ungar
Private
Blut und Ehre
Posts: 227
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Post by Ungar on Dec 5, 2008 20:46:19 GMT -5
I have read somehwere that yes, only The Fallschirmjager had the quilted parkas. Why? I don't know. I just remember reading it in a book. I would believe that the Luftwaffe had different contracts with different companies, and that Goring was famous for "designing" new uniforms. Also, I've never seen Heer or SS Units wear quilted parkas. Here is all kinds of Luftwaffe parkas:    |
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Post by sir veilance on Jan 13, 2009 9:45:25 GMT -5
From a photo dated January 1945, in the Ardennes. The caption says they are FJ's. One is wearing what looks like, a Tan and Water Parka, camo side out. It does look to have ground forces rank insignia on the sleeves. So who knows, if he is an FJ, maybe he borrowed it.  |
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Post by click on Jan 13, 2009 16:03:12 GMT -5
Haha, at first I thought that that guy on the right had a pony tail. ;D
Click
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Post by sir veilance on Jan 24, 2009 12:24:24 GMT -5
Has anyone bought one of Tridents Parkas?
They have the lowest price I have seen on the internet, but if they are junk I'll avoid them!
Thanks in advance for any advice!!
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Post by ottoss on Jan 24, 2009 23:07:30 GMT -5
Most of his uniforms are made by sturm. So im guessing his parkas are made by strum.
shane
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Post by feldwebelheidrich on Jan 28, 2009 15:31:19 GMT -5
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Post by feldwebelheidrich on Jan 28, 2009 15:36:07 GMT -5
forgot to add when you get them wash and dry them (dry hot) and the sleeves will pull up and be the correct length and kind of pucker around the cuff. then of course go drag them through the dirt, roll around in them and never wash them again.
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dont see that many re-enacotrs do that
