deacon
Private 1st Class
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Post by deacon on Nov 29, 2009 22:43:47 GMT -5
that B.A.R. is actually a Cavalry B.A.R. manufactured with a short barrel and stock. And It would be cool, but I need the car first.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 29, 2009 23:45:36 GMT -5
There were so many things I liked about Deacons approach relative to my own and I am extremely hopeful that I will be able to combine the best ideas from both his and mine and be able to come up with a design that is functional and attractive and can be produced affordably.
My goal is to insure the design works well and is durable and then design it so molds can be produced allowing for uniform and relatively simple assembly. I have ideas in my head about how all this can be done but these projects are always more difficult than we think going in. The worse case is I end up with two or three rental guns that can be issued out at local events along with my Garands and 30 Cals. The best case is I finalize a product that can be retailed sufficiently below the cost of a VFC to make sense given the inevitable compromises and have affordable available extra magazines.
It's ironic, I have always wanted a BAR but felt the VFC was too expensive for me. Ultimately I will spend more out of pocket when everything is said and done and will end up with a final product that is NOT as nice. The only upside is that once finished I should be able to produce a lot of them. It's the only justification for the labor and risk.
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Post by joeska on Dec 2, 2009 15:33:17 GMT -5
Cant wait to see the final product and price tag I love the B.A.R.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2009 15:48:34 GMT -5
Me too, With the exception of the Garand my favorite weapon of WW2 by far.
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Post by toboggan on Dec 2, 2009 17:30:55 GMT -5
This looks extremely nice. i haven't been checking in as often, and this made me want to check in everyday. I cannot wait for the full out fab of these. i would definitely buy one!
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Post by m5a11943 on Dec 2, 2009 18:32:27 GMT -5
Deacon are you thinking of custom building and selling your BAR?
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Post by badkarma1 on Dec 2, 2009 18:43:33 GMT -5
Very impressive Deacon. Good Job!!!! I think you've done an excellent job, so keep on it.
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deacon
Private 1st Class
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Post by deacon on Dec 2, 2009 19:21:51 GMT -5
Deacon are you thinking of custom building and selling your BAR? as I said earlier, 2nd Bat will be receiving my BAR in the week, and will be trying to combine our efforts in making a fully functional, great looking, cheap BAR.
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maxatax
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What are we supposed to use harsh language?!
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Post by maxatax on Dec 2, 2009 23:01:47 GMT -5
Oh im so excited, good work you and 2nd bat too. Is there a rough estimate on price and weapon specs?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2009 23:13:54 GMT -5
Don't get too excited these things seldom are as easy or quick to get going as we hope. Between the two of us we've probably exhausted well over six months taking things this far. I have built three prototypes trying different things and none could be replicated in a reasonable build time that would make sense. (One stopped working right after I got it built and I never could figure out the problems with it)
I am hoping by Spring to have something ready to market. My target price is $500.00 or somewhere there about. I was going to just use the M14 mags but am now leaning toward doing up an existing mag in a molded correctly shaped and sized magazine.
My other goal is to insure it can be easily disassembled and can be readily worked on, is durable and demensionally within a 1/4" to 1/2" of the shape and size of a real BAR.
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Post by hairy apple on Dec 2, 2009 23:50:19 GMT -5
I would stick with the m14 magazines. They are cheap and easy to get, and don't look too off from the BAR magazines. Having a custom magazine would make it a pain to get/make more for it.
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deacon
Private 1st Class
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Post by deacon on Dec 3, 2009 0:04:21 GMT -5
The short type M16 mags will most likely be used, being they can fit perfectly into a BAR magazine. and if a mold was made, they could be done pretty cheaply.
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CptJericho
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"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
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Post by CptJericho on Dec 3, 2009 1:05:00 GMT -5
I agree with harry apple go with the m14 magazine, make it plain and simple
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Dec 3, 2009 2:26:29 GMT -5
It would be simple, but one, they are not exactly the same size as a BAR magazine. And two, if 2nd Bat was to use my BAR as the main structure, an M14 Magazine wont work. The BB feed is not in the same location. To use an M14 gearbox and hopup, and utilize the original trigger location on the gearbox means the BB feed is now located in almost the middle of the mag well. So, to have the magazine in the correct location an M14 mag is out of the question.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 3, 2009 13:34:17 GMT -5
I will have to of course look at it but I know from my Garands every little infidelity knawed at me and to the degree that they could be accomodated I found it worth while to do so. If creating and building a correct sized and shaped BAR magazine is possible I would want to go that route. Remember my goal is to stick within 1/4 to 1/2 inch on all shaped and demensions. The M14 magazines when not side by side with a BAR magazine look right but not when compared directly. The Bar magzaine was considerably larger while not as long. If however going that route neccessitated an impractically expensive magazine or one that creates feeding issues or durability concerns then I would stick with the M14 mags. The main goal is still to build a gun that is fairly affordable and commonly able to be fielded at an airsoft event. A perfect BAR with 2 magazines just wouldn't cut it in my mind.
Folks requiring perfection will still have the options of a VFC although a VFC with a reasonable number of magazines is a $1200.00 outlay. All of this discussion at this point is just academic babble but is fun to engage others in the thought processes and considerations.
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CptJericho
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"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
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Post by CptJericho on Dec 3, 2009 14:41:28 GMT -5
ya i see what your saying deacon, the gun is spaced for a B.A.R. not the m14 mag, so you would have to adjust the gun instead of the mag.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 12, 2009 21:21:26 GMT -5
I'm currently doing subtle mods to the butt stock to make it more correct and shaping the inner liner to insure firm and proper alignment of the M14 gear box inside the BAR housing. Once that is done I will create the magazines and my first approach is going to be to use the short M16 mid caps free of their housings and placed inside a properly shaped BAR mold. This will naturally result in a magazine that requires both a donor mid cap M16 mag, disassembly time (minimal) Set up of the Magazine mold and production and once done and tested the pouring and production of the final magazines. Given that effort and time they will sadly be fairly expensive compared to ready off the shelf magazines but certainly not JAC, Showie or VFC expensive. Rubber Molds also are only good for production of 100 or so items (if you're lucky) before they have to be redone. If the demand is there I'll make multiple molds so several rifles and many many magazines can be curing at once.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 23, 2009 16:40:02 GMT -5
I've managed to build two more BARS for my own use. One using my original approach slightly modified and one using Deacons base approach. Both have their merits and I am reasonably pleased with them.
With the announcement that someone in China seriously intends to produce an affordable BAR (Great news if true!) I am going to hold off investing in the mold builds and production efforts needed to commercially offer these. I have however done the second one in a way that with minimal effort and expense it could be done. ($1200.00 to $1800.00 or so)
Obviously if this latest rumored BAR turns out to be viable I'll be glad I didn't proceed but if it never comes to fruition I'll wish I had. I have reasonable expectations that a commercially available (under 500.00 BAR) is going to be out there in the next 18 months or so. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.
In the meantime I may put one or both of these on Ebay and hopefully bust out of some of the costs invested so far.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 6, 2010 19:32:40 GMT -5
I stuck one of the BARs on Ebay. (We'll see what happens.) The other two I pulled the guts out of and will sell them as just visual props. Hopefully get $125.00 to $150.00 or so for them. They look pretty good if someone wants a wall hanger or something to use in pictures or film work Let me know via PM and I'll send you pictures.
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Post by fmdsutlery on Feb 18, 2010 16:54:40 GMT -5
What's the auction #?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 24, 2010 23:37:13 GMT -5
I sold the initial two I had and got more out of them than I expected. The final one (which I think is the nicest) is currently on Ebay for another few days. It is: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140385482264&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:ITI'm starting the bidding at $145.00 which is really cheap considering the moeny and time invested. The other two averaged well above that price and in several ways weren't as nice.
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