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Post by Polski on Nov 7, 2009 3:03:47 GMT -5
Regarding WW2 Poland, I always will be inspired by the actions during the Warsaw Uprising. It's amazing how well it was documented by both sides and the tales of the gallant actions by the Poles is amazing. If you haven't read or seen any photos regarding the history please take time to do so. I've also read about the Polish Cavalry's gallant charging of the tanks during the invasion, the tank battles in France 1944, the Polish submarine attacks against the Germans and the Polish pilots fearless aircombat during the battle of Britain. Yes, I too am surprised at the lack of acknowledgment considering their history.
As for Poland's contribution in the second world war, I am quite aware of their history; it is my passion. I make it my business to educate the people around me about the realities of the September invasion and the subsequent Warsaw Uprising. It makes me happy to know there are others, non-Poles, who care. The Polish Aces are to some extent acknowledged, and to a lesser extent the land forces who liberated Monte Casino. But it kills me when people say Poland was defeated outright within weeks and had nothing to show for it but a "gallant" battle between backward country Poles and their cavalry versus modern tanks. I'm sure you know that Poland's initial army was sandwiched by the Nazis and the Soviets (Nazi-Soviet pact) and that the tank charge was not real (the few horsemen who had "hunted" tanks were mobile units armed with the wz.35 anti-tank rifle).
I apologize for such a long response, in the end I think Poland's history is not acknowledged because it isn't OUR history. Poland is simply in the middle of us and them...so it receives no mention.
If it is alright with you, may I post this discussion within a thread for others to contribute?
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Nov 7, 2009 11:12:24 GMT -5
Okay with me , I find the the Pole's gallant contributions against the Germans and Russians inspiring. I have read and watched so much about the Poles contribution. there are a few moments in WW2 history that I feel have been neglected and forgotten, the Filipino Scouts, the Russians of Leningrad and the Poles during the Warsaw uprising.
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Post by volkssturm on Nov 7, 2009 13:12:03 GMT -5
Perhaps you know the details of this. I read once that the story of Polish cavalry charging tanks started from an incident where a Polish cavalry column in march formation stumbled into a German column, also in march formation, to the surprise of both forces. The Poles instinctively charged through the German column as the most effective way of breaking contact.
One of the great "If's" of WWII, imho, is what would have happened if the British and French had shown a more aggressive spirit in the Fall of 1939 and invaded Germany. The German defenses in the West Wall or Siegfried Line were still under construction and were manned largely by poorly trained and equiped troops, while the German panzers, the best Wehrmacht troops and the bulk of the Luftwaffe were engaged in Poland. While the British land forces were numerically too small to be very effective, it should have been a cakewalk for the large French army, with its armored force, to move up to the Rhine. Given that the German general staff was still less than enthusiastic, and the German fear of a two front war, the political consequences for Hitler could have been enormous. Like the motto of the SAS says, "Who dares, wins".
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Post by Fusilier on Nov 7, 2009 20:01:23 GMT -5
Perhaps you know the details of this. I read once that the story of Polish cavalry charging tanks started from an incident where a Polish cavalry column in march formation stumbled into a German column, also in march formation, to the surprise of both forces. The Poles instinctively charged through the German column as the most effective way of breaking contact. >> That incident NEVER happened! That story has become sort of legend since the War. Polish cavalry DID engage German armor,or infantry, but they were dismounted and had anti-tank guns. Polish Cavalry also attacked a German rear eshcelon supply unit at one time as well. BUT, NOBODY is stupid enough,or crazy enough,to charge armored vehicles on horseback. I think those type of stories tended to paint the Polish Army as stupid, and ignorant.
Sadly,stories such as this,and artwork have made their way into legitimate books and information,that too many people believe such nonsense.
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Post by Polski on Nov 8, 2009 0:33:41 GMT -5
One of the great "If's" of WWII, imho, is what would have happened if the British and French had shown a more aggressive spirit in the Fall of 1939 and invaded Germany. The German defenses in the West Wall or Siegfried Line were still under construction and were manned largely by poorly trained and equiped troops, while the German panzers, the best Wehrmacht troops and the bulk of the Luftwaffe were engaged in Poland. While the British land forces were numerically too small to be very effective, it should have been a cakewalk for the large French army, with its armored force, to move up to the Rhine. Given that the German general staff was still less than enthusiastic, and the German fear of a two front war, the political consequences for Hitler could have been enormous. Like the motto of the SAS says, "Who dares, wins". Pvtsnafu, I ask myself questions like this all the time. What if the French and British had reacted faster to their agreement to protect Poland? My biggest hypothetical is weather Poland would have been able to contain the Germans, had not the Soviets stabbed our backs (literally). If you ask Poles who they dislike more for the sins committed during the second war, they will always say the Russians. (only exception would perhaps be individual cases, when people hold vendettas over others for crimes committed specifically against them or family)
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Post by Polski on Nov 8, 2009 0:52:25 GMT -5
That incident NEVER happened! That story has become sort of legend since the War. Polish cavalry DID engage German armor,or infantry, but they were dismounted and had anti-tank guns. Polish Cavalry also attacked a German rear eshcelon supply unit at one time as well. BUT, NOBODY is stupid enough,or crazy enough,to charge armored vehicles on horseback. I think those type of stories tended to paint the Polish Army as stupid, and ignorant. Sadly,stories such as this,and artwork have made their way into legitimate books and information,that too many people believe such nonsense. Fusilier is right, the cavalry charge is but legend that has forever stereotyped Poland as the ignorant force that lost within weeks against Nazi superior weaponry. This is the true reality of the tank charge: The few soldiers armed with the wz.35 anti-tank rifle did not charge into the Nazi tank column, but rather sniped as many tanks as they could (the wz.35's round could penetrate any tank Armour at the time and the rifle in general was made years before the Russian PTRS-41) Off course they did not win (too many tanks, too little snipers) but I just want everyone to know, like Fusilier said, that the tank charge stated in a few questionable sources is false.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 10, 2009 23:29:05 GMT -5
What few people consider is that Poland was simultaneously attacked by both Russia and Germany and that inspite of the brief nature of the clash caused the German army more casualties than the combined French and British in the time from the outbreak to Dunkirk. The Poles later proved their fighting spirit in Italy, Normandy, Holland and supporting numerous campaigns. They were fine soldiers.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Nov 10, 2009 23:41:35 GMT -5
Perhaps had they a few more of these snipers they could have beat the hell out of both Germans and Soviets. and told the French and British to bugger off.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 10, 2009 23:54:25 GMT -5
By 1939 Airpower (Or lack of it) was the main deciding factor in warfare on a grand scale. The Polish airforce didn't have a prayer against the Luffwaffe in 1939. With Germany ruling the sky over Poland the outcome was inevitable and no amount of gallantry would change that.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 11, 2009 0:05:57 GMT -5
Even tough the Polish Air Force was vastly outnumbered by the Luftwaffe , they still managed to shoot down 134 German aircraft.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Nov 11, 2009 1:18:27 GMT -5
The whole Warsaw uprising story is inspiring. The photos are amazing
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Post by Polski on Nov 11, 2009 2:29:27 GMT -5
And there's my favorite WWII gun, the B³yskawica submachine gun! The underground resistance also made their own flamethrower, among many other things, heres a picture:
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CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 11, 2009 10:23:21 GMT -5
oh yeah speaking of airforce, did you know the germans lost 45% of its airforce due to accidents?
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Nov 11, 2009 20:25:37 GMT -5
oh yeah speaking of airforce, did you know the germans lost 45% of its airforce due to accidents? Yes... accidentally flying in front of Spitfires, P51's and P47's ;D
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CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 11, 2009 20:39:24 GMT -5
lolz! ;D
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