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Post by schmitty on Mar 10, 2006 22:11:03 GMT -5
I get emails at a rate of at least two a week asking "how do I make a _____ AEG"? or "how did you make ____". The purpose of this thread will be to help those with the inclination to try custom projects in how to get started and hopefully answer some of those common questions. Let me start by saying I am not the only one to look too for advice there are other skilled customizers on this site and elsewhere on the net, These comments are my opinions based on my experience. I intend this to be an ongoing thread as I get time and ideas to post. Feel free to chime in with usefull on topic comments.
Part 1: picking a subject.
Here is the criteria for selecting a weapon to make into a custom AEG.
Cost. Most custom AEG's require a TM donor gun so figure on buying a new or used Marui (or other brand)gun plus a parts kit or replica of the gun you wish to make. Also figure out the cost of other parts you may need including magazines, upgrade parts, battery's, wiring switches etc. It is generally cheaper to buy a complete TM gun than to buy the internal parts separately (Gearbox, hop up, barrel). Building custom guns is not a cheap or cost saving venture, do it because you love it, not too save money.
Rarity. Pick a subject you can actually find or make from scratch. A good example of a difficult subject is a BAR, these are just plain hard to come by, also consider if you are using a parts kit that is rare and expensive you may hurt its value by modifying it.
Practicality. It may seem like a M2 .50 cal may be a fearsome weapon on the air soft battlefield but it is actually a very cumbersome and difficult weapon to deal with and won't shoot much harder or farther than many sub machine-guns that are far more practical, however game rules will typically allow MG's to have far more ammo.
Complexity. Consider how complex the project will be and pick something within your skill level. If you have never worked on an AEG before don't start with something so difficult that you will get discouraged and never finish. Also consider what gearbox will fit and where you will put the battery, ammo switches etc.
Finished value: This is a small consideration in my book but still a factor. As a custom AEG you could end up with something valuable when finished. In General MG's will always be more money than SMG's, Guns made from real parts kits will probably be more valuable than ones made from replicas. Customs made from plastic replicas or spring guns will probably be the least valuable. There is the most demand for American weapons (here in the US) so the value will be highest. Followed closely by German weapons. then British and Russian, Less known weapons will most likely bring the least money.
Originality: You have two choices here, either build a gun that someone else has already converted before so you can learn from their example or build something that you have never seen done so you can be the first. And last but MOST important. Build the weapon you always wanted but couldn't buy, or that best suits your impression or simply appeals to you the most.
Next I'll write a bit about Tools, welding and parts kits.
Schmitty
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Post by Guinness on Mar 10, 2006 22:17:45 GMT -5
Fantastic article Schmitty!
Well done oh Guru of the custom do!
;D
-G
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Post by Gordak on Mar 10, 2006 22:18:07 GMT -5
Very cool! My story: Wild unstoppable obssesion with ww2 airsoft guns meets dremel tool!!!... Im lucky my house is still standing -Gordak
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Post by schmitty on Mar 11, 2006 11:01:01 GMT -5
Part 2
Tools
Here is a list of Tools I find helpful when building custom guns, You don't have to be a machinist or have a lot of expensive tools to build custom weapons but at a minimum I would recommend:
A Dremel tool. (mostly for the cut off wheels and sanding drums) set of good files. Electric drill. Hammer, Vise, modeling Knife (Xacto), sandpaper. Soldering tools. Angle Grinder (if you are going to build from parts kit).
Other tools that I tend to use a lot but aren't totally necessary:
Drill press. Belt sander. Propane torch.
A lathe and/or milling machine can be useful but not necessary. I have a small lathe but rarely use it in building custom guns. You don't have to spend a lot of money, You can buy a Drill press or belt sander from Harbor freight tools (or other discount tool stores)for $40, an angle grinder for $20. You will never regret buying tools. Once you have them you will find uses for lots of other repairs and projects.
If you are planning to build a custom based on a de-activated parts kit here are some things to consider.
Most de-act kits come with either torch cuts to the receiver or parts of the receiver missing (at least here in the USA), There are some legal issues with putting them back together. It varies from state to state and I don't pretend to know exactly what the laws are regarding welding de-activated guns back together. In general the guns I have made are highly modified on the inside preventing them from ever firing a real cartridge again. I believe this would satisfy any law enforcement agent who inspected it.
Some MG's can be re-assembled without welding. These include kits that don't include right side plates such as M1919, M2, Vickers gun, Maxim. If you really want to avoid welding this may be a good choice.
Let's say you want to build a AEG based on a de-act weapon that has been torch cut. How do you go about welding it back together? First you will either need a welder or someone to do it for you. You can purchase a wire feed welder for $200 or less that will do the job. Wire feed welding is surprisingly easy. I have a fairly cheap MIG welder that I use all the time for all sorts of projects (not just air soft) Welding is a skill that you will find useful for the rest of your life.
When the weapons are de-activated they are cut in accordance to BATF specs with a gas torch removing 1/8 to 1/4 inch material at each cut. So how do you weld it back together straight and back to its original size? First by studying pictures of your subject then clamping the pieces together in correct alignment and tacking them together with small welds, Then before you start filling in the welds check every joint with straight edges and by eying down its length from every angle for straightness, If something is off, cut it loose with a angle grinder and cut off wheel and try again. It can be helpful to build a crude jig to hold the pieces in alignment until tacked together.
In places there may be large gaps. It is very easy to fill in the gaps with a wire feed welder by making several passes. Then grinding and filing the blobby welds into shape. If you need to weld two pieces together and there is a gap between them, you move back and forth between the pieces with the tip of the welder and eventually a bridge will form between the pieces that you can then build on.
If you really want to tackle a custom project but don't want to do the welding yourself, ask around at your local air soft field (or even at a gun club) to find a gun friendly welder who can help you. I would not recommend walking into your local muffler shop and asking if they will weld your machine gun back together (unless you know them).
Next:Which AEG gearbox will fit? and how do I go about that?
Schmitty
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 11, 2006 11:31:18 GMT -5
This has been a long awaited series. Keep the tips coming. You are providing a wonderful service to airsofters every where. You are going to encourage those who should be encouraged and provide a dose of reality to those of us with two thumbs. Advice you've provided me has been invaluable.
One of your most worthwhile tips for me has been: If you're struggling or frustrated set the project aside. You may get an inspiration for a new way to go about it or simply reinvigorate your desire to take it on. That has certainly been the case with me on my stock modifications where after destroying one and running into similar challenges on the second one I set it aside and worked on other things. I came up with a new strategy and went back to it with new found successes.
Customizing a unique gun is a lot of work but the process and finished prduct can be extremely rewarding.
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Post by airsoftaddict on Nov 24, 2007 17:03:01 GMT -5
hate to post in a thread that is over a year old but what happened where is the next part of the guide
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 24, 2007 17:38:17 GMT -5
Actually it is probably time to revisit this thread. I'm not sure what Schmitty was going to write here but I'll give my best input on the subject.
Traditionally almost all AEG gearboxes were designed with the motor angling off in a roughly 90 degree angle. This worked great for weapons with a pistol grip. (M-16, MP-5, AKs ect. but greatly limited your ability to align things in a traditional WW2 era weapon which more often then not used a traditional rifle stock. (Garand, BAR, Gewere 43, Carbine etc.) Hence most mech boxes simply wouldn't work with out extensive re configuring. This is well beyond the capability of most customizers as the AEG gearbox is very dependent on precise alignment of the gears and internals.
The presence now of the M-14 series and MP-40 layout gearbox (Which doesn't do a 90 degree angle into the motor) opens up lots of new possibilities as does the smaller size of the gear boxes for AEPs. In addition the presence of the Chinese metal gear box weapons makes for a much lower initial expense on gear boxes that are generally pretty darn good.
Even with that, the gear box that seems like it should fit just fine often will not. I originally thought an M1919 would offer tons of room given that the outer housing of the receiver group forms a fairly large square box. Oddly enough the insertion point to the center of the barrel offered numerous unanticipated challenges. Schmitty had to do some creative adaptations to make a AEG gearbox work inside a demilled 30 Cal. (His end result was outstanding.) Killbucket uses the M-14 gear box which requires little or no adaptation and it is barely noticeable along the lower edge of his creations. If it was fitted higher into the receiver group it wouldn't align with the barrel. If the barrel was moved up the gun wouldn't look right visually.
The key is to take careful measurements of both the donor gun and the gearbox or follow lessons learned from others efforts. Once you determine that a gear box will fit you have to figure out your trigger mechanism your feed system your barrel alignment and where the batteries will go. You also must make sure your hop up arrangement will work and fit. I'm a proponent of trying to adapt things with as few alterations to the original layout as possible. For me, every adaptation and alteration to the original layout becomes a weak point and increased potential area for reliability issues. The trigger set up is the easiest to overcome as it is usually just a case of relocating a switch or contact point. The feed system is far more challenging typically. As with the gears the feed point has to be solid and precise to accomodate reliability. Sometimes once your gear box will fit inside your base gun housing your barrel design won't properly align. The Gewere 43, SKS and AK 47 for example have a barrel that exits the receiver group much lower then most guns. (The gas port tube is above the barrel not below as with most US weapons) An M-14 gearbox is aligned quite differently so this fact has to be considered. Once I figure out where I'll place my batteries how easily can I access them?
Carefully think through these challenges before you take on a project and start cutting. Sometimes you won't have the luxury of recognizing the challenges until you've invested in the components and have started in on your conversion. This constitutes risk and it is something you must be prepared to accept before tackling any custom endeavor.
Measure twice, cut once and hammer to fit. These projects can be enourmously exaccerbating but incredibly rewarding. Do not do them with the anticipation that you will make money from the effort. You'll be lucky if you regain $5.00 an hour for your labor time. Add in trips to the hardware store, brain time figuring things out and all the redos and you probably won't make that. Do the project for yourself not others. If you do it for others triple what you think its going to take and be prepared to charge what you think is reasonable for that amount of time. (You're still going to come up short but at least you won't feel quite as bad.)
There is a reason custom guns sell for such outrageous money but by doing them yourself you can save a huge amount of money and enjoy praise that goes well beyond others knowing your pockets are deep.
Wear eye protection and a breathing mask!
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Post by schmitty on Dec 26, 2007 18:02:02 GMT -5
I hadn't noticed that this thread had been revived. I originally meant to write more but somehow got off track. Anyway, 2nd bat has done an excellent job of writing a third installment. I completely agree with everything he wrote.
Things have changed a bit since I started this article series. As 2nd bat pointed out, The availability of cheaper parts and donor guns with gearboxes more suitable for custom projects has made it much cheaper and easier to get the internal parts you may need. On the down side, many parts kits have become far less available and harder to find and many have gone up in value a great deal over the last couple years. The BATF has changed some of the laws regarding importing parts kits to the USA, Barrels are no longer included or are deactivated. Most receivers require more cuts than before or have more parts missing.
Of the custom guns I have done. I have found the TM VER III (AK, AUG) gearbox to be the most useful and adaptable. The motor holder can be turned around offering two different motor angles, one near vertical which worked well for the MK V Sten and Bren gun. I have modified several of these gearboxes to put the motor and bevel gear in alignment with the other gears to fit guns with no pistol grip. This method still provides the most compact full size (non aep) gearbox I have seen. Shorter than a AGM MP40 or M14, However, Changing gear alignment is not easy and I would not recommend it be attempted by a novice.
One trick that has worked well for me on many projects is to use a P90, Thompson style Cylinder head on a VER III gearbox (or vice versa) One limitation of airsoft guns is that the nozzle has to be centered with the guns barrel, but because the P90/Thompson nozzle is not centered in its cylinder it can be used to lower or raise (if turned upside down) the relationship of the gearbox to the nozzle and barrel, It has sometimes required modifying the tappet plate but that isn't too hard.
Schmitty
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