Springfield Conversion

[Dracul]

From 2ndBat, this looks extremely good! 

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These first pictures are of a Springfield using a heavily modified VSR stock and lots of resin paste.







The rear site is a take off from a CYMA carbine!

[deadcat7382]

sweet looking shooter!

[shiftysgarand]

Nice! @2nd Bat, what were the materials required for this rifle? Was it just a BAR-10 and a bunch of resin paste, or did you use any original 1903 parts as well?

[2nd Bat]

The only orignal Springfield parts on this particular conversion are the stock bands and front site. The entire stock is a reshaped and added to VSR stock and a resin fabricated upper handguard. On the receiver group there is a stove knob and the other enhancements (visually) are all sculpted resin. Total materials costs roughly $160.00?

[Big_Pete]

2ndBat, I'm extremely interested in trying out this method of conversion. Am I correct that the whole section of the stock in front of the lower stock band with the sling swivel is resin? Do you think that it's durable enough for some serious skirmishing? My worry (probably because I don't know exactly how it's constructed) is that I'd whack the front end on something and have the whole resin built on part just snap off

[2nd Bat]

I cut off the very end of the VSR plastic stock and this leaves a channel below the barrel where I resin paste in a wood dowel. The dowel recesses about two inches into the now hollow lower portion of your VSR stock. I resin paste this dowel completely into the recess. This dowel provides more than adequate strength to support any field efforts short of bayonet practice. It is extremely strong. The resin paste I use has threads of fiberglass in it and is extremely rugged and has proven to be quite durable. Regular BONDO does not provide anywhere near the needed strength although with the dowel running the length of stock extension it would probably work?

I hope that is clear? Likewise when I dramatically reshaped the rear butt stock. (Not necessary, if you're replicating a late war "C" stock) the applied dyna glass resin paste is very resilient and strong. the resin paste also can accept weights which if strategically placed add both strength and (of course) weight.

[Big_Pete]

I understand what you did. Is this the resin stuff you use? 

www.amazon.com/Dynatron-462-Dyna-Glass-Strand-Filler/dp/B000CITG5U
I'm thinking... After prom this might be where my time and money will go. An 03a4 would be awesome. 

[ScottCollins]

2nd bat, couldn't you take some resin and fill in the bolt hole? That detail caught my eye immediately. But that is a great gun and only for $160 in materials is astounding!

[2nd Bat]

Scott Yes the bolt hole could easily be filled in however that would require that i angle the bolt and I wanted to just keep it as is. There are ways to do it that provide adequate strength but on this particular rifle I passed on that detail. did you catch my fabricated fake butt plate? I usually get an actual butt plate but didn't have one on hand so I experimented a little. This certainly isn't as nice as many Springfields I have built in the past and not nearly as pretty as your 1903A1 Scott which certainly was as nicely done as any I ever did! Of the dozen Springfields Ive done this was far and above the least costly and is a good solid shooter.

Big Pete. The dyna glass you linked is not the brand I typically use but appears to be exactly the same stuff. I have used both the BONDO brand dynaglass and the product sold at TAP plastic. Both worked great. I think you can by it off the shelf at ACE, Home Depot and Auto Parts stores for less than the Amazon list?

[2nd Bat]

With a real wood S&T springer M1903 based on the VSR internals and available for under $300.00 this project is no longer logical! Thats awesome news for all of us. Way too Long in coming. If it proves to be durable and reliable (I see no reason why it won't be), do it yourself, Springfields don't make logical sense. Except perhaps for those folks who enjoy the building.

Lets hope a do it yourself Kar 98 is the next project rendered moot!

[2nd Bat]

I have to ammend my earlier statement about a homemade VSR Springfield not making sense with the S&T Springfield, springer now in the marketplace. The S&T is a fabulous replica but doesn't provide nearly the range,power or accuracy of these BAR 10 conversions. With a bolt action rifle the added power makes the effort worth considering. I have fired my S&T a lot and like it very much but when I pull out my BAR 10 conversions the difference is very very noticeable.

With the VSR conversions you can really reach out and touch someone from afar. In addition, upgrade parts are readily available for the BAR10 and thus far not the S&T. The homebuilts if done well are much better skirmish rifles.

[Dracul]

And outside of custom ordering pistons and spring guides, there isn't much else you can do to upgrade it and keep it alive. Its all proprietary. I'm still getting catastrophic multiple feed issues because the BB stopper in the hopup is completely proprietary. There isn't anything I can really do to fix it as is.

I'll admit its still a decent buy if it was cheaper, just to get all the 1903 parts together in one swoop. So you can use them for a VSR-10 mod yourself. Which is what I'm going to do to mine eventually. Which, I think they might have even been planning for buyers to do that, since the forward part of the stock disconnects from the rest of it, and right under one of the stock bands.

After paying for the rifle for $150 (at the time), about $70 in custom upgrade parts, and importing extra mags for about $25-$30, I'm really not too happy about it...

So, until someone makes a 1903 thats 100% VSR-based, the Springfield conversions are the way to go. Now with the 1903 being at $200, you might as well do or buy a conversion, it will be much better in the long run. 

[2nd Bat]

My fall back plan if the S&T was a disaster was (and remains) using it as a donor for a VSR conversion but thus far mine is functioning adequately to be a skirmish weapon. Loading remains tricky and the performance is not on Parr with what I'd like to see for a bolt action rifle. The VSR conversions (even without upgrades) shoot very well. The S&T just shoots okay. (Mine at least)

[2nd Bat]

Just stepped through this seven page 11 year long thread. For me a trip down memory lane. I still have my S & T Springfield which I set up to quickly change into an A1 should I desire. Hence in essence I have two rifles in one. It continues to impress me as a replica but without upgrades is underpowered for a bolt action. I got one off the initial shipment and anecdotal reports from later orders indicates they are much harder shooters which would make it a viable skirmisher. There are also now a good kist of available upgrade parts through SWIT airsoft and others. S & T at long last offers a Mauser which surprisingly is an entirely different internal design. It is absolutely skirmishable right out of the box.


I sold all of my homebuilt Springfield figuring with the commercial offering they would be hard to sell and knowing hat I can always make myself another. I am so excited that after the frustration of wAiting nearly 20 years for them to do so we finally have a good selection of the most common WW2 weapons that relative to the custom build days are affordable and fully skirmishable. Our biggest hole currently being a quality aeg carbine.

[boz]

I very much enjoyed reading the seven page and now 12 year thread on 1903 Springfield conversions. Yes the S&T Springfield at (now...2020) $250 gets one there (with modest power) quickly. But my interest is in an early WW2 (and WW1) Model 1903 with the ladder sight, whereas the S&T is the M1903A3 with the rear peep sight. So there is still a bit of mod to be done. I'm looking for a broken S&T, cheap, so I can play around with the conversion to earlier configuration, get my sources and/or 3-D printed or whatever bits and pieces lined up, and then repeat on a new-bought one. So if anyone has a broken S&T Springfield (or broken G&G, or a broken Apple Airsoft Springfield) you want clear out, give me a ring.

[2nd Bat]

The conversion to an A1 is pretty straight forward and can be done with actual parts. I set mine up so I can readily swap back and forth without much time or effort. Literally two rifles in one. The A1 upper handguards are pretty available and cheap and require very little deemed work. The rear site is more involved (I cut it rather than slipping it over). The A3 rear peep site is easily removable. The A1 is the more iconic look and my favorite. I wasn't courageous enough to attempt finger grooves but see where other have. (I love that look). Our gunsmith French member did a fabulous job with his M1903A1. I have also heard that performance on current S&T Springfields is much better than the initial group (like mine) and if it's on par with their Kar98 would be wonderful as it is amazingly good. It is interestingly an entirely different airport gun. Given the relationship between Mauser and Springfield you'd think they would be 90% the same.

[boz]

2nd Bat, I'm committed enough to a Springfield M1903 mark1 (WW1, not M1903A1 WW2) project, that I'm starting to assemble key pieces. I am fortunate to have an actual Springfield M1903 mark1 to compare to. My project:
a. doesn't have to actually shoot (blanks or airsoft), tho' either would be a plus, and,
b. has to be a very close replica, able to stand up to adjacent and close up (1ft) comparison to actual rifles. So a dummy exact-external replica, not a tribute or iconic.
c. needs to have a working bolt, and be sturdy enough to be carried in the field and dry-fired, often. But not to 'drill rifle slap around' ruggedness.

You've done a LOT of Springfield BAR-10 shooter conversions and S&T springer mods, so I hope to leverage your experience. I only plan to do one or two, and at minimum cost (one is to be a donation as unit loaner), and minimum wastage (I don't have use for extra parts left over....). So here's some questions, which I hope you (and/or others) can answer some of:

1. pieces to get to convert an S&T M1903A1 straight stock (ie early WW2 with rear peep sight) to a M1903 Mark1 straight stock (ie standard WW1 or maybe early WW2 homeguard) working-bolt dummy.
a. ladder rear sight (found on eBay, enroute)
b. walnut shorter upper fore-stock (found at Numrich, might purchase bundle of four, to try to match S&T main stock better)
c. exposing more of the barrel with shorter Mark 1 upper fore-stock....how have you gotten the right look (diameter and left/right divits). Is the existing S&T barrel under there close (some machining, careful dremel or shadow-paint?), has someone 3-D printed a barrel segment to fit there, or pipe and grinding?
d. what other key parts to replace (I know the rear sling swivel is too small for sling but folk seem to say 'easy fix'....did you replace with an original?
e. repro leather sling (found on ManTheLine on sale some time ago, have in hand)

2. How can I email to half a dozen fellas who bought several S&Ts and thus might have a broken one they wish to unload for cheap, see if I can find one for half price since I don't need a shooter (for my first, loaner, test/practice one).

3. I'm a mite worried about stock (upper and lower) finish matching. Have you had success with replacing/matching just the top fore-stock on S&T M1903A3 to earlier configuration, or have you had to go to full stock replacement (an expense I'd love to avoid).

4. If you did full stock replacement, and I decide on that...I've found scant stocks but not straight.
a. do you know of an affordable source of straight stocks (matched set) or
b. have you cut down a scant stock to become a straight stock?

5. How did you afix the rear ladder sight? JB weld? Screw/shape/JBweld? other?

6. For those who succeeded in finger grooves....how done? Found a bit the right tip-shape and made a jig for router? or just meticulous hand-carve/dremel work?

7. Other advice...the question(s) I should have asked but was too new at this and thus didn't.

Thanks, Boz

[2nd Bat]

Matching the stains are easy as you just strip down and restain. An exact match is neither critical or even desireable. Real issues rifle were often mismatched as factories were cranking them out. Just be sure and wind up with a dull military looking finish. The straight stock on the S&T is my favorite look and will serve you well in the conversion. For the rear sight I just bought the ladder assembly and attached it to a cut down piece of pvc pipe. Then sanded and painted. It snaps into place and stays recently secure. popping it on and off is fairly easy and it doesn't mar the surface. If I were permanently going for the WW1 look I would have cut down the actual band and JB weld it into place. The cut down is covered by the lower stock. When I have done finger grooves I have just taped of the area to groove and used a dremel. I suspect there are quicker and easier ways but this has worked for me (though time consuming). With the S&T there is not a lot of depth to work with so I didn't chance it on my current one.

[2nd Bat]

Incidentally Dracul way back when in an attempt to upgrade his S&T hit a dead end and could never quite get it back fully operatiinal. If he still has his Springfield and you can get a hold of him he might well it cheap. I would hate to see you but a decent real straight stock and use it for the project you have in mind.

[boz]

Yep, I've decided to go with the S&T main stock, and the only two parts I've pre-stocked to replace, as I look for a boneyard to experiment upon, are the upper handguard/upper stock (shorter...taller...grooved) and the iconic Mark 1/A1 ladder rear sight.  The other M1903 Mark 1 (WW1) iconic element, less noticeable, is the upper/front barrel band (the one with bayonet lug and stacking swivel).  On M1903A1 and M1903A3 (and hence on S&T) it is solid on top, whereas on Mark 1 it is cut away on top, like the early Mausers.  I did find M1917 Enfield cut-away and I think very similar upper barrel bands for sale, but I've decided to take the S&T A3 one and modify it to cut-away as best I can...not sure if or how I'll buildup, strengthen the rearmost portion fading into the upper handguard.  I'm also inquiring of S&T (manufacturer in Hong Kong) if they have a project to come out with a Mark 1 or M1903A1 version of their current M1903A3 rifle.  I don't think so, but if they are, my conversion efforts would be merely to accelerate what I could likely purchase for less.  I've been in Hong Kong twice (1973 when still under British rule, before S&T, and more recently in 2017 when S&T and their M1903A3 existed and I might have looked at it in person).  

[2nd Bat]

Keep us posted and share pictures.

[boz]

Will do. The ladder sight arrived, looks great. Still waiting on the Numrich four bundled A1 (shorter.taller) handgrips/upper-stocks, but Numrich website has "4-6 weeks" due pandemic and limited manning, so they aren't overdue yet.

Poking around for a better deal on a new S&T than Evike, but haven't found it, as they are exclusive in North America and while I found less expensive from overseas, the shipping cost kills. Once the handgrips arrive, I'll purchase the new one.

And I'm still looking to find a boneyard S&T M1903A3, anyone reading this with one, pop me a message! If I find that, I'll do two.

[boz]

Another thought as I looked around the availability of bolt action springers. I didn't see anything better, more cost effective than the JG Bar-10 for a skirmishable, iconic-look Springfield M1903 like you used to convert. The price is still good, and one can make an early WW2 scant stock A1 or a M1903A3 or A4 of it. But my own main purpose is WW1, the Mark 1, dummy for 'side-by-side appearance' and dry-firing. The airsoft replicas (other than the M1903A3's of S&T, G&G and Apple Airsoft) than caught my eye as possible foundations to build a M1903 replica on were the Kar98K replicas (Dboys, G&G, another (?) and (way outa my price league) Tanaka). Seemingly very similar geometry (except not straight stock), bent/balled bolt handle, some are shell-ejecting, and for my purposes either a boneyard springer or a boneyard gas model could work. Here's a good owner's indepth on his Dboys springer.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GalYq7SouA. He has a plastic stock, says 'would buy again, but it's not useful for skirmishing, just backyard plinking and wall-hanger beauty'. I could see a wood-stock boneyard as a 'best base' for a M1903 Mark 1 (WW1), tho' either wood-stock or plastic-stock might work for a M1903A1 scant stock conversion. Did you ever look at these Kar98K's for conversion to allied, 2nd Bat?

[2nd Bat]

No I used various GET a the cheapest being an AG M MP001. It was a hard shooter but had a weak trigger box can which all too often failed within 500 shots a stronger replacement trigger box is an easy fix but cost 2/3res the price of the entire gun.

[boz]

Status on my M1903 Mark 1 project....
a. as previously reported, received the ladder sight (eBay find).
b. as previously reported, ordered the handgrip (top stock)....know it'll be a while before arrival from Numrich, but 'enroute'
c. just today, ordered a brand-new S&T M1903A3 from Evike (with a 2nd airsoft magazine)

So, if my nefarious plans come together, in 2-4 weeks I should have all the pieces here in Virginia to start the project of a Mark 1 retro conversion, and also be able to use it for pandemic backyard plinking. I'll try it with the A3 peep sight before I remove to replace with the Mark 1 (or A1) ladder sight, for comparison purposes.

[2nd Bat]

If you have a chrono I would be curious to know what a current S&T M1903 shoots like. The initial shipment like Dracul and I received were fairly anemic (for a bolt action rifle). Shooting at around 360 FPS. Not horrible by any means but with a bolty you like to be sure they feel the single hit "at range". I have heard from several sources that the later and current ones shoot much harder right out of the box. My S&T Kar98 shoots way way harder than my springfield. I love both rifles as they are reliable and excellent replicas. Too Tall (Another member here) is also working on converting his 1903 to the iconic A1 WW1 and early WW2 variant. Droupaille from France has a nice tutorial on his conversion.

[boz]

I've been off for a while because I got very busy at work (naval ship designer/school-director) and another (non-gun) project.  But I have assembled everything I think I need for the WW1 Springfield conversion.  Fortunate that I finally purchased the Evike M1903A3 airsoft (having sought unsuccessfully, so far, for a broken S&T Springfield at half price (if anyone has, let me know and I'd do a 2nd!)....the Evike M1903A3s are newly out of stock.  No surprises when I quickly unboxed a few weeks ago...and I also purchased a spare magazine.  I haven't even had a chance to shoot her....which I want to do before I start taking her apart for the conversion to WW1 Mark 1 configuration.  I don't have a chrono, sorry.

[2nd Bat]

A cheap chronic is to shoot an aluminum coke can from 10 inches away. The resulting damage tell you quite accurately how powerful it is. Dent, hole, hole and dent, hole and hole and then check the same when you shoot the can at its base. Wear goggles when you try this. Keep us posted on how it all comes together.