German Pioneer Officer Impression. Help needed.

[gaiusbaltar]

I've been trying to make a Pioneer Officer impression, but I have reached an impass.

After MUCH time doing research, I have been able to find only some information on the appropriate insignia and gear.

I would really appreciate it if anyone could help point me in the right direction.

Thanks

[fliptape]

www.wwiidaybyday.com/uniformen/heer.htm

[kalbs]

Black piping on boards and in the tabs, other than that same as any other Heer officer.

Specialty gear used was the same too except depending on the mission engineer assault rigs may have been but this would probably not be carried by an officer.

[Fusilier]

May I ask WHY a pioneer officer? Do you have a platoon of pioneers to lead?

A REALLY good and practical impression would be a standard Heer infantryman,which is SORELY lacking in the hobby!

Regular infantry is what did 95% of the fighting on a daily basis. Pioneers were specialist troops for certain jobs such as demolition,building bridges etc.

Not much of a need for pioneers in WW2 airsoft that I can see.

[Adler69]

Pioneers also had the duty of laying down and lifting mine fields , which could apply in Airsoft .
Also in Ost Front events pioneers could be used to set up anti tank obstacles to keep Sasha from attacking the German Forces.

But yeah an Officer impression is not a good idea unless you have the men to lead , a regular plain old pioneer trooper would work best and would be cheaper than putting together an officer imp.

[kalbs]

Actually our game this weekend includes designated pioneers who are the only ones who can guide troops through marked mine fields. Adds another dimension to the game.

I'm with Bob on being not too sure about the officer bit.

[Ersatzjack]

Jul 5, 2010 20:26:49 GMT -5 Fusilier said:

Not much of a need for pioneers in WW2 airsoft that I can see.

We don't have platoons of them but two of our players (one in particular) really enjoy doing the pioneer impression and they add to our events devising new explosive tricks and AT weaponry. He gives up some of his regular soldier duties but so what. I always feel better about facing Natasha when our pioneer troops are integrated into our squads and nothing is as cool as opposing forces tripping his mines during an enemy contact. Airsoft can certainly support pioneer types well.

As to the original question, gaiusbaltar didn't ask if we thought doing an officer impression was the way to go but whether we had any ideas for officer research. I think we need to know more before we go off on the officer/enlisted advice. BTW - the link provided by fliptape is pretty neat.

[gaiusbaltar]

Wow. Thanks to everyone, especially fliptape for the help.

I was thinking of it for a bitt and I've decided to go for a plain pioneer and should be getting my gear soon.

[Boshman]

Many people don't realise that the "stormtroopers" in the movie Stalingrad are actually sturmpioniere of the 336th Pionier Batallion.

For operation Hubertus, more than 6 Pionier battalions were specially brought in for their specialist skills in demolitions and FIBUA training.

A fantastic book on both Stalingrad and pionieers in general is "Island of Fire" by Jason Marks. It also has some great photo of EM's and officers in both dress and field uniforms.

[Fusilier]

May I suggest a REGULAR German Army impression? No need for all the specialist equipment,and there were a lot more of them than there were pioneer troops..

Just a suggestion.

[Boshman]

The thing is Pionieers ARE regular troops. Every German Divison had a Pionier Batallion and most Infantry Battalions had at least 1 Pioneer Zug. They are an esential part of any fighting unit and would usually be in the vanguard of any assault, clearing mines, blowing up obstacles, pillboxes etc.

It's interesteing that a fair few VERY famous photos used to depicte the "regular" Heer infantry soldat, are actually of pioniers and not regular infantry!

Here is a couple of examples: note the black waffenfarb on the shoulderboards!

[Fusilier]

Apr 7, 2011 4:09:42 GMT -5 Boshman said:

The thing is Pionieers ARE regular troops. Every German Divison had a Pionier Batallion and most Infantry Battalions had at least 1 Pioneer Zug. They are an esential part of any fighting unit and would usually be in the vanguard of any assault, clearing mines, blowing up obstacles, pillboxes etc.

It's interesteing that a fair few VERY famous photos used to depicte the "regular" Heer infantry soldat, are actually of pioniers and not regular infantry!

Here is a couple of examples: note the black waffenfarb on the shoulderboards!

>>
You're wrong. Pioneers are the modern day equivalent to combat engineers. Totally different MOS in the Army. Can they do the job of an infantryman? Yes,they are trained for that,BUT,they have specialized training in explosives,breaching,mines,etc. Was the same back then,hence the black waffenfarbe.
Poneers were organized into battalions in German infanty divisions and parceled out to where they are needed most. The prime example is Stalingrad.

I also disagree that there are VERY FEW pictures of REGULAR Heer troops.

[CharleyNovember]

So Pioneers were not part of every battalion, and thus were not common? I don't think there is anything wrong with a pioneer impression, or putting together any impression you have an interest in researching and putting it together right.
I can see this as much more common and workable of an impression rather than an obscure SS Paratroop impression. This impression is far more common than a whole zug of heer all with Stg44 and MP40's right?

[Boshman]

Apr 7, 2011 20:19:45 GMT -5 Fusilier said:

Apr 7, 2011 4:09:42 GMT -5 Boshman said:

The thing is Pionieers ARE regular troops. Every German Divison had a Pionier Batallion and most Infantry Battalions had at least 1 Pioneer Zug. They are an esential part of any fighting unit and would usually be in the vanguard of any assault, clearing mines, blowing up obstacles, pillboxes etc.

It's interesteing that a fair few VERY famous photos used to depicte the "regular" Heer infantry soldat, are actually of pioniers and not regular infantry!

Here is a couple of examples: note the black waffenfarb on the shoulderboards!

>>
You're wrong. Pioneers are the modern day equivalent to combat engineers. Totally different MOS in the Army. Can they do the job of an infantryman? Yes,they are trained for that,BUT,they have specialized training in explosives,breaching,mines,etc. Was the same back then,hence the black waffenfarbe.
Poneers were organized into battalions in German infanty divisions and parceled out to where they are needed most. The prime example is Stalingrad.

I also disagree that there are VERY FEW pictures of REGULAR Heer troops.

Well, you have done a good job there of mis-quoting me, disagreeing with me and at the same time repeating what I had already said!.

I never said there are "VERY FEW pictures of REGULAR Heer troops", of course there are thousands. What I said was that a lot of famous and Iconic pictures which are purported to be, and are often captioned as "German Infantry" are in fact pictures of Pionieers.

I would bet that pretty much EVERY picture of a German Soldat with a Flamethrower IS a pionieer!

Yes, Pioneers are the equivilent of Combat engineers or sappers, or what ever you want to call them and yes, as I did say, they were formed as a battalion in each division. my point is they were trained as and fought as infantry when required and were often fully integrated and combined with the infantry batallions in action and would often be in the Schwerpunkt of an assault.

The one big exception, again as I already said, was at Stalingrad where the Battalions of a number of divisions were pulled in specially to spearhead Operation Hubertus because of their specialist skills.

AS CharleyNovember says, a Pioneer impression is just as valid as any other on the skirmish field and lets face it, The only main difference to regular infantry is the Black waffenfarbe on the shoulderboards. Plus you do have the option of collecting all the additional cool pionier specifc bits of kit if you so choose, and you get to play be mines and pyros.

Each to their own I say! I'm off to build an Airsoft J-Feder 504 now!

[Fusilier]

Everyone wants to be unique I guess.

Go for it!

I suppose its better than more SS or Easy Co. impressions..

Like you said to each his own..