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Post by cole97 on Dec 28, 2010 20:52:15 GMT -5
hello, this is my project i recently started. a 1918a2 Browning automatic rifle. the construction of this gun will be mostly black mild steel. so, i got myself some 1mm thick steel sheet at lowes and started cutting the side panels. my ideal thickness of steel wouldve been 2mm steel (1/8 inch) but they didnt have the correct length and height of 2mm that i wanted, so im using 1/16 inch. this will use an m14 gear box and real steel (modified) B.A.R. magazines. picture of what i have so far:  Uploaded with ImageShack.ussorry for the picture being upside down, that was my mistake. |
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 28, 2010 22:01:56 GMT -5
Good luck man! I've thought of trying this same idea but I don't have good enough tools to do it properly.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 28, 2010 22:12:58 GMT -5
I wish you well and look forward to regular updates. There are many challenges as you will soon discover but you clearly have a vision and a good start. If you need an actual BAR butt stock let me know as I have one I'll sell for what I bought it for years ago. (They have really gone up since.)
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Post by cole97 on Dec 28, 2010 22:14:00 GMT -5
thanks! it took me roughly 2 hours to cut this shape out like how it is in the picture with an electric jig saw with a metal cutting blade and an assortment of files. ill cut the other side out and start getting some more steel for this project tommarro. im not sure how easily this could be done with limited tools, but it sure helps to have some heavy duty tools around for this project. ill keep updating as i go along!
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Post by cole97 on Dec 28, 2010 22:20:34 GMT -5
2nd Bat - i am truley enjoying this project so far and im hoping that keeps me going through this project. i havnt sorted out what ill be using for furniture yet, i may be making my own wood furniture or buying bakelite furniture, but sorry to say, making my own will cut down on the cost alot (i did also notice how highly priced BAR parts have gone up), even with your very generous offer.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 29, 2010 0:02:06 GMT -5
No problem. I really want to see you succeed with this endeavor. Stick with it. I am building a couple as we speak but I am once again just doing them in fiberglass and wood as that is what I have done in the past and I was pleased with the results. With what I hope will be an eventual Chinese reasonably priced offering I don't want to expend too much expense in materials or time.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 29, 2010 14:53:34 GMT -5
okay so i just cut the other side and filed it down. ill have to sort out a way to get the back parts the same. the first one i cut was a bit off...maybey i can build it up with some weld and file it down. we'll see. picture:  |
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 29, 2010 17:05:46 GMT -5
You will find this build quite challenging I'm afraid but I have hope for you. Schmitty gave me a great tip way back when. He said if you get stuck just back off for a while and come back at it later with the inevitable inspiring new thought. It's really proven to be great advice.
The ability to weld dramatically changes everything and great tools is the key. Years ago on this site someone posted a home built BAR done in Arizona and it was gorgeous.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 29, 2010 17:20:05 GMT -5
schmitty is absolutely right. i can imagine if i ever hit a snag ill back off for a while to think about it. it already has been some work just cutting the peices out and i cant imagine it getting easier. is the thread of the other home made BAR still up? it would be good inspiration for my project.
anyways, the next part ill have to do is fold the other side, weld it underneath, then weld some thicker steel on the top to get the profile correct. we'll see how that goes!
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Post by jimmiroquai on Dec 30, 2010 4:13:49 GMT -5
Nice! Is this going to be based on Oddball's build?
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Post by cole97 on Dec 30, 2010 12:52:58 GMT -5
yes! you nailed it! yes i am basing my BAR strongly off of his. though im hoping that my 1mm steel will be strong enough. thats my only concern for now. i used his BAR template to make my template as well. ill probably also use his stock template too. his videos also have great information on dimentions too which is definatly going to help me to get this to look right.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 30, 2010 18:06:59 GMT -5
so today i made a slab of 1/4 inch steel that i then welded on the top of the right side panel. ive ground it back a little before i took the picture. i ment to take a picture of the raw weld so you guys could see it but oh well. ill weld the rest and put the rest on top then grind it all back to a 45 degree angle. the weld is pretty strong so i think ill be okay with 1mm steel panels if i make the welds strong.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
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Post by cole97 on Dec 31, 2010 0:19:41 GMT -5
so ill do two updates in one day. ive added alot more steel and builded some weld up in places. once i weld the two sides together ill grind everything back, like i said on a 45 degree angle.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 31, 2010 0:27:46 GMT -5
Looking good. Might I get the templates off you?
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Post by cole97 on Dec 31, 2010 1:02:38 GMT -5
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 31, 2010 13:29:47 GMT -5
Good links there. Thanks.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 31, 2010 13:58:10 GMT -5
no problem  i hope to also spread this as an option for anyone who wants to make a BAR. there is also one really nice plus, that the gun will be heavy, like the real one. since my metal is thin, how do you guys think i should reinforce it? or should i at all? thats what im thinking before i weld the other side on. |
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Post by cole97 on Dec 31, 2010 15:00:12 GMT -5
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Post by cole97 on Dec 31, 2010 19:11:52 GMT -5
today i have only welded the left portion on and ground it back. just for other people, i put two tack-welds on either side of the receiver, bent the welds to the right position again, and used a single clamp and a 36mm spacer i made out of steel, and welded the rest, then ground it back a little. tomarro ill most likely grind the welds to the correct angle and clean it up a bit more.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
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Post by cole97 on Jan 4, 2011 17:39:34 GMT -5
Hey guys. So in the past few days I've been thinking, and I believe I convinced myself that 1mm is too thin. It bender horribly on me the other day. I think i need to be patient and get some 2-3mm steel for the sides. I'll try to saw off the sides and still use the other metal if I can.
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morganm
Private
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Post by morganm on Jan 4, 2011 18:42:46 GMT -5
I was going to make a BAR, but I considered it wouldn't look very good so I decided against it. Great start though. Mine was going to be ABS plastic anyway.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 4, 2011 19:27:53 GMT -5
Have you considered using the 1mm but using bar and square stock steel in between to add rigidity? I think the 1mm will work fine for airsoft.
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Post by cole97 on Jan 4, 2011 20:36:33 GMT -5
ive thought of a lot of things to make it more sturdy. i have about 1-1.5mm gap of room for the gear box. i dont think anything sturdy could fit in that small of a gap. my biggest concern was that it wouldnt be able to support the barrel, gas tube or stock. thicker steel would fix that. it sucks a bigg'n. reinforcement wouldnt help much because there is little room for any significant reinforcement.
i got slightly carried away that i didnt realize it probably couldnt support much.
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Post by cole97 on Jan 4, 2011 20:38:28 GMT -5
but now i have to find thicker steel in the correct length and height i need. interesting. 2nd Bat was right, i did hit a snag didnt i?  we'll see how this gets sorted out. |
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Post by cole97 on Jan 5, 2011 23:52:10 GMT -5
i just go my BAR magazine today from the website mentioned before. good quality for being a used magazine. it came really fast too. almost mint condition, except it had some chalk and dust on it initally. the magazine slides perfectly into my reciever. but a whole new reciever might be in order still. bummer.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 6, 2011 14:22:49 GMT -5
Would it be possible with the shell you've created to coat the inside with a thin layer of dyna glass resin and still have adequate space for your gear box? If so you could salvage the work you have currently done and further shape the inside to fit nicely against your gear box.
What you might do is mount the gear box as it ultimately will align inside the stock with the barrel and then apply masking tape over the gear box. Smear a gob of release mold wax over the masking tape and then apply the resin paste. Sand and shape the dyna glass resin it to a size that will fit in your metal shell and then once hardened remove it from the tape, remove the tape and mount the resin support inside your shell using adhesive or a layre of dyna glass. Once dried You would then have (if space permits) a solid and reinforced shell that is capable of being disassembled from your mechanicals.
In looking at your approach it occured to me that I might take a reverse approach and dyna glass in the desired shape and then apply a veneer of thin metal onto the resin. It would perhaps allow me to create a thinner receiver group, more correctly sized and provide a metal reciever shell.
All of this of course is theory as without handling the items I have no idea what your restrictions are. I know with my resin BAR props I ended up each time with a receiver group that was thicker than the original
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Post by cole97 on Jan 6, 2011 17:45:03 GMT -5
My tolerences on the gear box between metal are very loose. I wish I knew where to buy the resin paste. Is that a lowes/homedepot trip?
It could be a very good idea to put resin inside. The gearbox conveniently doesn't actually sit in the stock area. It fits in the steel part of the grip. The battery might be held in the stock still. So the stock will only have to have a small hole for the wires. As of now with the thin steel the gun is exactly the same width of the real one (39mm). Which is of course ideal, but if I use thicker steel it will (obviously) be thicker. But I think I could give up some dimensions for strength. I'm still not sure as of now. I would at least want to make sure the weak points have steel reinforcement. Then resin for a tight fitting gearbox?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 7, 2011 2:58:47 GMT -5
The dyna glass resin paste is a Bondo product that uses tiny strands of fiberglass and once dry is very very strong. It can be bought at virtually any hardware store, auto or marine parts outlet. I suspect for your project you will need some sort of filler to secure gaps and the dyna glass would also provide strength. I have to think it would be worth looking into. It's relatively inexpensive. You will probably find you need it to fill in your butt stock assuming you modify and M14 butt stock to replicate a Bakelight BAR stock which was actually more common than the wood one in WW2
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Post by cole97 on Jan 7, 2011 19:24:23 GMT -5
does dyna glass resin paste simulate bakelite somewhat? i might cast the stock pieces out of it. wood positives and then molding it with plaster to get the negative, then make resin positives? hmm. this dyna glass stuff opens some new options.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jan 7, 2011 20:25:43 GMT -5
If it is anything like the regular Bondo bodyfiller it would not be strong enough in my opinion.
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i hope to also spread this as an option for anyone who wants to make a BAR. there is also one really nice plus, that the gun will be heavy, like the real one. since my metal is thin, how do you guys think i should reinforce it? or should i at all? thats what im thinking before i weld the other side on.
we'll see how this gets sorted out.