Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 2, 2012 14:08:41 GMT -5
Very sorry to hear that Jettalewis.
I keep forgetting that the G&G and ICS Garand are coming out. I already have two AEG M1 Garands that I have been working on for years though. I might as well finish them at this point. I'd like to sell one of them but I am not sure I will be able to with the two AEG Garands coming onto the market.
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Post by tinydata on Apr 2, 2012 21:43:44 GMT -5
Jettalewis- From what I understand, Greek stocks are typically identifiable by the rack numbers stamped into the back of the stock. This is the way my M1903 (a Greek return) came to me. For those that don't have markings, the most I've read is from this thread: www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-121890.html
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2012 0:51:56 GMT -5
Good lord sgt Tom. Do you mean to suggest that after all these years you still haven't actually finished either of you M1 Garand conversions? Clearly it would be a good idea to finish them and obviously you,ll be better able to sell them before either the ICS or GnG Garand AEGs come out and are readily available.. Probably about eight months or a year away.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 3, 2012 8:02:51 GMT -5
Good lord sgt Tom. Do you mean to suggest that after all these years you still haven't actually finished either of you M1 Garand conversions? Clearly it would be a good idea to finish them and obviously you,ll be better able to sell them before either the ICS or GnG Garand AEGs come out and are readily available.. Probably about eight months or a year away. Yes it is true however ridiculous it is. I simply haven't had time to work on them as I have been putting some other projects first, mainly my custom Kar98s (but also 1928 Thompson, custom MP40, MP44). Too many projects too little time. I still plan on finishing them this year though. My AEG M1 Garands have become a running joke with my best friend lol.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2012 15:22:09 GMT -5
Yikes! How many years has it been? You were so far along and seemingly so dedicated to the projects. Obviously a snag that you need to confront. If there is anything any of us can do to help you along with it let us know by PM.
Sorry for the highjack of your thread Jetta but its a good reminder that these custom efforts are often more frustrating than most people realize. And that finding time to complete them is often quite challenging. Get these guys done Sgt Tom and perhaps you will once again want to join the allied side!
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 3, 2012 17:31:44 GMT -5
Yikes! How many years has it been? You were so far along and seemingly so dedicated to the projects. Obviously a snag that you need to confront. If there is anything any of us can do to help you along with it let us know by PM. Sorry for the highjack of your thread Jetta but its a good reminder that these custom efforts are often more frustrating than most people realize. And that finding time to complete them is often quite challenging. Get these guys done Sgt Tom and perhaps you will once again want to join the allied side! I started the conversion in September of 2008 . Wow 4 years already haha. I really don't have a snag right now. I just have the gearboxes taken apart. One of the M1s is pretty much done other then the gearbox. I am going to revamp it a bit by adding the front sling ferrule and repainting it. Anyways yea I am just busy with other stuff. My Kar98 business took up a lot of time. I don't see how you can do an M14 conversion in only 3 weeks 2nd Bat. Many of my Kar98s took a whole year to make . Anyways back on subject I really admire your work, Jettalewis. I really try to make my custom weapons look as real as possible so I can appreciate the work you did put into this M1. I really admire your attention to detail. Maybe if I ever have time I'll copy some of the stuff you did for my conversion. I need to get the basic build down first though. ;D
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 3, 2012 18:00:24 GMT -5
I can see how you can knock one out in a couple weeks, after you've done a few to figure out how it's done. I spent a lot of time on mine staring at it and trying to figure out how to fix the stupid thing I just did. ;D
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Sgt_Tom
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Combat!
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 3, 2012 18:11:48 GMT -5
I can see how you can knock one out in a couple weeks, after you've done a few to figure out how it's done. I spent a lot of time on mine staring at it and trying to figure out how to fix the stupid thing I just did. ;D Yea but I got the Kar98s down pretty well at this point though I haven't even made 1/30 of what 2nd Bat has made . I am just slow and lazy.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 3, 2012 20:51:51 GMT -5
Thinking about this slicing the stock in half idea. I've got an old stock I started to hollow out and a bandsaw. unfortunately, the butt is too tall to go through. I'd have to do that end by hand or make another cut in from the side and probably leave an obvious cut mark. On the plus side, the bandsaw has a thin kerf.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 4, 2012 0:22:38 GMT -5
I did a SKS and one of My wood Garands following that approach. I started with a line drawn down the seam center and began the cut with my dremel. This provided a channel that guided the ultimate full cut. Once split in half it was far easier to make the internal cuts and dremel shaving needed to accomodate the AEG internals and battery. Popcicle stick provided the additional required gap wood. I also had to fabricate a slightly different space through the Garand neck and SKS in order to facilitate the M14 gear box although I doubt many would notice the new shape. The stock is however now slightly wider than it was originally (Two popcilcle sticks wider) hence the upper handguard and lower handguard are tiny bit thinner than the main stock. Again barely noticeable. Some of the hardware like the butt plate and stock ferrule had to be modified in order to work and this further added to the build. With elmers wood glue, prudent sanding and the final stain they ended looking quite good. The amount of work required however is such that it sure isn't anything I ever wanted to do commercially and I knew if I mentioned it way back when I'd be hounded with requests I had no interest in filling.
By keeping my offerings relatively basic and standardized I was able to build and sell well over 360 rifles and another several hundred kits. They are by no means as wonderful as the product Jetta Lewis built for himself and not as thoroughly detailed as a lot of the home builds I've seen on this forum and elsewhere but they got done, got delivered and provide pseudo Garands on WW2 airsoft fields in France, Russia, The Netherlands, Belgium, The UK, New Zealand, Australia, Finland, Sweden, Turkey, Greece, Argentina, Spain and virtually every state in the US.
Its been a pretty darn exciting journey! No one is more excited than I am that a viable commercial offering or two will finally be offered. Lets hope they aren't vapor ware and turn out skirmishable and reliable.
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Post by jettalewis on Apr 4, 2012 17:54:11 GMT -5
2nd bat...I gotta ask. With doing so many M1's why didn't you have a woodsmith turn out a bunch of stocks? They would have had to of been cheaper than an original and could have been fully inleted. The extra width could have been factored in and it would probably have been a lot better than we can do now. I see M1 Garand stocks with upper and lower forarms being offered for $110 on the net right now and I bet they can be purchased cheaper than that. Just asking, cause I know you build a lot of guns.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 4, 2012 23:58:27 GMT -5
Throughout this entire adventure I always expected (and hoped) that a Chinese company was going to enter the marketplace with a $250.00 AEG Garand so I never felt comfortable investing much in set up costs or tooling. Once it appeared there was a window of possibilities and a lot of demand for all wood Garands I found a wood shop about 80 miles away from my home with a CnC capability willing to take on the project. They took my templated wood stock and said they could produce stocks for me but charged $800.00 in set up and $220.00 per stock. I paid it and several months later and a lot of harrasing phone calls later I managed to get about a half dozen stocks out of them before they closed up, went out of business and took me for the additional 12 stocks I had paid for and my original blank. I had to refund all my pending orders and the whole thing frankly was a financial disaster.
From then on I simply did the modified plastic stocks and the occassional one off hand done stocks which as you know are a ton of work. Hopefully GnG or ICS will offer an all wood version of their AEG Garands and the community will finally have an affordable and hopefully well done replica Garand AEG. (Fingers tightly crossed) I built my first Garand conversion from an Airsoft club M14 eight and maybe even nine years ago and never imagined it would take this long for a viable company to make available a Garand in an AEG. With all the rumors and everything I always assumed one was right around the corner. I think at long last this perhaps is finally true although I suspect they are still a year away.
Incidently lookingback on all the approaches I have taken, the very best way to modify an actual stock is to cut away the upper section of the neck area and then hollow straight down and along the upper "roof" you have removed and then modify and fill the inevitable gaps with resin filler. It makes the hollowing work much much easier through the neck and once reattached the neck can be shaped in such a way that it blends pretty nicely. I did a couple stocks that way as well. My original plug was done following that approach. I wish I still had that plug!
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Post by jettalewis on Apr 5, 2012 12:43:48 GMT -5
Yes, I can perfectly understand how you could get strung along that way. Who would of thought it would take 8 or 9 years for a factory AEG Garand. And I am with you on your opinion that it will take another year before release. It's definately coming, but only time will tell just when it will get here and I bet the first release will shock some ppl with how much it is going to initially cost. I'm thinking of doing another Garand with one of the new release stocks. Have you any experience with how they are to work with in the neck area?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 5, 2012 15:16:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean by the new release stocks?
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 5, 2012 17:39:03 GMT -5
"Cut away the upper section of the neck." I never would have thought of doing it that way. You inspired me to fire up the bandsaw. There's a strong likelihood I just made an expensive piece of firewood, but we'll see. ;D
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Post by jettalewis on Apr 5, 2012 22:39:02 GMT -5
I would not have thought of that either volkssturm 2nd bat, I ment newly manufactured stocks. I had been seeing them with both upper and lowers for $110, but one of the companies just jumped up to $149 so I don't know how much longer they will be availiable.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 6, 2012 10:30:51 GMT -5
Cutting away the upper portion of the neck provides access and room to work in this area but still leaves you with a ton of ere el work and precise cutting. It makes the project manageable however. Blending back on the wood equites a little artistry depending on how much you have to expand this area but it ends up being barely visible. no matter what you do your stains are never going to match but on field rifles this area is usually blackened by palm sweat anyway.
When I have used actual Garand stocks I have gone with stocks bought at gun shows that were solid but not historically significant. I usually paid somewhere around 60.00 for them although I got some for 20! I have ruined more than one in the process of my conversion and these ended up as prop guns.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 6, 2012 11:35:26 GMT -5
The one I'm carving up is a Danish stock I got on eBay 6 or 7 years ago. About 50-60 bucks I think. Anyway, I'm making lots of sawdust. The wood is getting frighteningly thin. And it's not quite all the way in yet. I think it's going to work, but I'm really worried abouthow fragile it's going to be. I'm going to try lining the hollowed out part with epoxy/fiberglass, but making room for it mightbe a problem.
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Post by jettalewis on Apr 7, 2012 20:29:12 GMT -5
Man, that is so scary to look at. I wish my idea of moving the motor to the back of the stock had worked. I got the remote part working, but there was no place to put the motor. Goodluck. It looks like you are well on your way
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Post by jettalewis on Apr 11, 2012 17:23:49 GMT -5
Ok, I finally shot a short video of this thing in action. Sorry it starts out so dark, but it gets light enough at the right time.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Apr 11, 2012 20:27:35 GMT -5
That's awesome. That works alot better than I thought ;D
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roma
Private
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Post by roma on Apr 12, 2012 15:57:28 GMT -5
Great work indeed! But I want to say that my real birch wood stock is still alive after many events. Just be carefull and that is all. You dont need to knock out doors with it, it is just an airsoft gun.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 13, 2012 14:19:48 GMT -5
That really works slick!
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Post by nile on May 31, 2012 13:19:25 GMT -5
I was looking on Evike.com and they once had a wooden M14 replacement stock. They are no longer in stock, and haven't been for a very long time. They were spendy ($110), I was curious if you have ever worked with any of them or have ever seen anyone utilize one. With this, it would be made of wood, and house the motor perfectly. You would only have to trim down the front a bit I believe.
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Post by jettalewis on May 31, 2012 15:10:27 GMT -5
Someone was saying on another forum that 2ndbat is making a garand stock that is extra wide in the handle area to accomidate the motor. Personally, I don't see how on the wood m14 stock you will end up with a decent looking m1 garand stock. Some years ago, there were ppl who would replicate wood stocks at a decent price and I had a couple done, but today I have no idea how to contact these ppl. Perhaps someone on here will know someone who can do what you want to do. Think about it for a second, a dead lookalike m1 garand stock that will accomidate m14 internals Oops. I went back up and read the other post by 2ndbat. Sorry for your troubles. Now, I am going to tell you a heart breaker. My grandfather purchased a stock duplicating machine from the govt in the 40s. The only thing he used it for was to make ball bats. My uncle got ahold of the lathe and used it to turn out ax handles, wheel barrow handles and the like. It did an excellent job and the output only required minimal sanding to be ready. Sadly to say, that piece of equiment went away some years ago and manys the time I have wished I had bought it.
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Post by nile on Jun 2, 2012 12:40:49 GMT -5
Jettalewis, that is why you are a master craftsman and I a mere novice haha.
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Post by jettalewis on Jun 2, 2012 13:27:41 GMT -5
Oh, I don't have any master craftsman tools that could be used for what we are doing. Most of it is chipping, gouging and sanding. For cutting out these old stocks to accomidate the airsoft internals the absolute best tool I have is the 3/4 inch hand held belt sander. It will cut out the toughest old stocks and has enough reach to even start the motor hole for the Garands. And the best part....it is a cheap buy from Harbor Freight. I don't know how long it will last, but I have used it on 3 builds now and it is still going strong.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 23, 2013 15:23:09 GMT -5
This was a really old thread and I'm afraid mine is a major necropost but I am dying to know how your stock project came out Volks as with the last posted picture it looks like you were just about there. Also SGT TOM please tell me you finally finished your two Garand conversions. Thankfully I sold off all my remaining inventory (although I kept one of each variation). With the ICS finally out (and excellent) you can't get much for a M14 to Garand convesion although one sold on Ebay last week for $286.00 and I have seen some go as cheaply as $175.00. I took some real growdie left over parts and with great effort and time knocked out two more Garands for use as loaners. They were built on boneyard M14s which were easy to fix up and cheap and the components were all laying around. I sold the take off M14 components on ebay for what the boneyard M14s cost so essentially these two "Garands" ended up as no cost projects but lots of sweat equity.
The final production tally for my endeavor was 486 rifles if I count the 128 kits I sold which I assume mostly ended up as finished rifles. At this point the GnG Garand still remains an unrealized product but the ICS is an extremely nice effort far nicer then my conversions and at far less money then I needed to sell mine at. there are still visual ifidelities in the ICS (which seem entirely unneccessary) but hopefully the GnG will remedy that for those bothered by it.
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 24, 2013 0:53:45 GMT -5
I'm embarrassed to admit that's about as far as I got. The thinness of the wood was making me nervous. Then when the M1's came out it didn't seem too pressing to continue.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 24, 2013 2:31:18 GMT -5
Wood is surprisingly strong even when quite thin. I find if i dremel and hold my hand on the outer area I am chunking out I avoid going too far. A thin thin layer of dynaglass is easy to apply and will provide a lot of additional strength. Dig the project out and get it finished so you can get something out of the components if nothing else. I love the ICS Garand and am really looking forward to the GnG (if nd when t finally comes out) but I still get a lot of satisfaction shooting my home built Garands and I am sure you will as well. There are some shot height, mid cap m-14 rounds that hokd 70 BBs. They protrude slightly below the Garand lower stock but if that is unacceptable they can be shortened by a half inch which takes your capacity down to about 45 rounds and are then flush with your stock. The housing is metal and they are pretty impressive. Like shortening any mag they are a pain but you really only need about 3 or 4 for a garand (180 ready rounds) They are a lot nicer then the modified 12 round shotgun mags.
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