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Post by volkssturm on May 21, 2012 15:56:58 GMT -5
Here's an idea I've toyed with off and on, but being lazy and not skilled enough have never pursued. I thought I'd toss it out and see if it lands in a minefield.
The most common firearms of WWII, except for the US, were bolt action rifles. For purposes of Airsoft skirmishes, the few bolt action airsoft guns are at a hopeless disadvantage to Thompsons, Stens, MP40's and STG44's. The M1 conversions at least have the advantage of semi-auto fire.
So, I was thinking (yes, I have too much time on my hands) what if, for purposes of skirmishing, you built a No. 1 or No. 4 Enfield, or Springfield or Kar98 around an M14 mechbox, so it would look like you had a period correct weapon, but when faced by an SMG you could at least get off more than one shot before being overwhelmed by a cloud of BB's?
You could include a bolt that cycles, so you could work it if you felt like it, even though it actually did nothing.
Comments? (Jumps in foxhole and pulls helmet over entire body) ;D
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on May 21, 2012 17:59:33 GMT -5
Someone could probably get this to work. I could see the gearbox getting in the way of the bolt though. Anyhow I'd just stick to springers as semi auto is unrealistic. Sure like you said you could still rack the bolt but how many people would actually do that. Its just not worth the time or effort.
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Post by labrador on May 21, 2012 18:10:06 GMT -5
I thought about this as well. Yes, semi auto would balance out game play versus assault rifles and smg's quite well. remember most SMG's when using LiPo batteries are shooting waaay above the actual rate of fire. I'd welcome such a development as most airsofters are not going to switch to long rifles.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on May 21, 2012 18:30:22 GMT -5
I think most airsofters would if their were affordable bolt actions to begin with. Buying a custom built rifle is just going to far for most guys especially when you consider how much they cost. If their were affordable bolt actions out there I don't think there would be a problem.
Besides I don't think its a good solution your just giving up on the whole bolt action aspect aside from looks.
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Post by volkssturm on May 21, 2012 19:34:29 GMT -5
One could argue that if you were going to be "realistic" bolt actions would have at least twice (or maybe three times) the range of SMG's, and SMG's would be limited to 30 round mags. ;D
Doubt we'll see that.
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Post by aj czarkowski on May 21, 2012 20:25:56 GMT -5
If there were rifles the same price and quality, people would buy them. But when an MP40 SMG costs $150 and a Kar98k rifle (Which is a ton less effective in [airsoft] battle) is $500 and needs to be custom built, then why in the hell would someone buy the rifle instead? (Not making fun of anyone, I actually did)
I made my own kar98 to be realistic, it broke 3 times and costs 3 times more than what my pals are using, so I'm done. Same with my M1 Garand , except I got lucky there and it works fine. When a company makes a rifle for the same quality, and around the same cost then you'll see more of them.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on May 21, 2012 21:05:19 GMT -5
One could argue that if you were going to be "realistic" bolt actions would have at least twice (or maybe three times) the range of SMG's, and SMG's would be limited to 30 round mags. ;D Doubt we'll see that. Airsoft guns aren't as accurate as real guns for the most part so the whole real capacity magazine point is kind of moot. As far as the other point that isn't hard at all. Just put a weak spring in the AEG's and you lose some range. Still sticking to my guns. A good bolt action isn't that out classed, I've played with mine a lot. The problem is there is no company making affordable, decent functioning rifles. That is from my experience at least.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 28, 2012 22:32:16 GMT -5
I too have thought about creating the looks of a bolt action rifle with an electric semi auto gear box but as mentioned the effort and expense just wouldnt justify it. I do enjoy the act of racking the bolt and though not as effective for skirmishing, the challenges makes it especially fun. When game designers hold a significant percentage of players to semi auto and limited mag capacity they arent so terribly outclassed to make them ineffective. obviously in the long run it would be awesome to try and regulate weapons so SMGs had less accuracy or range. I have long advocated SMGs at 320 or below with no hop up but the odds of that ever getting wide spread approval is certainly slim in a hobby where we cant afford to give players a reason not to come. Maybe someday or at some top quality events such measures will be taken. it would make for a great event.
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Post by volkssturm on May 29, 2012 11:57:08 GMT -5
Nice to know I'm not the only one perverted enough to come up with this idea. True, working the bolt is part of the experience. Back in the pre-war days of small professional armies both the British and US spent a lot of time praticing bolt manipulation to speed of their rate of fire. The pre-WWI British may have been the champs at this (plus the Enfield design was slightly faster to work than a Mauser), to the point that in some of the early battles British troops were laying down so much fire the Germans thought they were facing machineguns.
Anyhow, one of my pet peeves with modern airsoft is that all those young whippersnappers seem obsessed with ever higher rates of fire and enormous box magazines. It's like they're all Terminators carrying Vulcan gatling guns. Harrrummph! (Warning, crotchety old fart on a rant.)
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on May 29, 2012 12:15:59 GMT -5
Full auto guns with a ton of ammo are more effective and that is all that a lot of airsoft players care about. I am mostly into realism so yea. Springers obviously can't have the same rate of fire as a real bolt action but you don't really need to. I am usually picking my targets when playing airsoft. Honestly I prefur springs over AEG's just because they are soooo simple to work on and upgrade. AEG gearboxes are such a pain!
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roadwarrior
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Post by roadwarrior on May 29, 2012 12:46:33 GMT -5
If you make it accurate at range bolts actions are very effective, same with semi-auto's. Of-coarse It's a pain in the ass to do so, but it's worth it.
I know someone who has a 90 BBs per-second p90 with a box mag, It's really loud and scary as hell lol.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 1, 2012 1:10:15 GMT -5
The enfield had a 10 round magazine and indeed the british army got quite good at putting rapid aimed fire down range. However the legend of germans mistaking enfield fire as machine gun fire comes from an emtirely different source of fire. In ww1 machine guns were often used as indirect fire and aimed to place bursts in an arch with an impact "beaten zone". It could be quite lethal when properly placed. The Enfields of the time were equipped with volley sites on the side of the stock which flipped up and provided guidance for the tilt required to drop the rounds in at a certain range. A platoon or squad of Enfield equipped riflemen could arrange themselves and site in so that upon command they would fire their rifles as quickly as possible and drop the massive amount of ammo into the same general beaten zone, muvh like a machine gun. It was this type of Enfield fire that was often mistaken as machine gun fire. Incidently arched fire into a beaten zone is quite effective with airsoft guns as well but is seldom effectively employed
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Post by tommyhawk on Jun 27, 2012 18:18:08 GMT -5
all of my ww2 airsoft expirience is with AEGs, but what you guys havent talked about as much, is that spring guns are generally harder to break than AEGs. Also if you are in combat with several enemies bearing down on you with automatic weapons, you dont want to run out of batteries!
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Post by bloodandguts5150 on Jun 27, 2012 18:38:09 GMT -5
Nice to know I'm not the only one perverted enough to come up with this idea. True, working the bolt is part of the experience. Back in the pre-war days of small professional armies both the British and US spent a lot of time praticing bolt manipulation to speed of their rate of fire. The pre-WWI British may have been the champs at this (plus the Enfield design was slightly faster to work than a Mauser), to the point that in some of the early battles British troops were laying down so much fire the Germans thought they were facing machineguns. Anyhow, one of my pet peeves with modern airsoft is that all those young whippersnappers seem obsessed with ever higher rates of fire and enormous box magazines. It's like they're all Terminators carrying Vulcan gatling guns. Harrrummph! (Warning, crotchety old fart on a rant.) I play with a guy who bought the minigun, it's intimidating when it works, but for the most part i think he wasted $3000 on that hunk of dog $#!t.
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Post by volkssturm on Jul 7, 2012 11:14:05 GMT -5
I find it kind of amusing how much image counts in Airsoft. As far as putting BB's downrange, they all do the same thing, some a little faster or further than others. But in practical terms a stripped down, barebones AK or M16 is no much different than the fanciest, most expensive custom gun. But the LOOK counts. (Hey, been there, done that. ;D)
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Jul 10, 2012 4:42:08 GMT -5
The trick to getting a really high rate of fire with a lee enfield is to use your second finger to pull the trigger while the thumb and forefinger work the bolt.
Even with a 'long pull' airsoft one it's much faster.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 10, 2012 17:40:57 GMT -5
The same trick with the middle finger applies with airsoft as cocking the bolt is both easier and quicker when you do so. unfortunately with the resistance of the spring one cant match the speed of a trained British Infantryman. The impact on the shoulder is sure a lot nicer however so over time it tends to even out.
unfortunately with the reduced ranges of airsoft the fact that the muzzle somewhat comes off your target and the increased visibility your cocking action provides your opponents the bolt action rifle really has to be masterly used. with that said I still love doing it. i remember at jump to destiny I had some battey failures on a few of my Garands and only had bolt action springfields to replace them with for the players. both of them had decent luck with them and enjoyed the experience. they thought a little more carefully about when to engage and picked their shots carefully. both players scored eliminations on Germans even though virtually all of them (with airsoft guns) had MP40s or MP 44s.
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Post by GermanShepherd on Aug 1, 2012 13:36:27 GMT -5
I see it how 2nd Bat explained last. Bolt action can be very fun. Even when out gunned. It does make you pick you shots, take more time, etc. I think it should be more embraced too. But the point of how much it costs is solid. But i think if you want semi auto. Go garand, or g43, the russian semi auto...i forgot thiers. Its all in what your lookin for outta your own experience needs.
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 2, 2012 11:58:35 GMT -5
Once I finish my time machine, I'll go back and convince the Brits to adopt the Johnson Rifle ;D . They actually looked at it, but turned it down. Too bad.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Aug 13, 2012 12:42:03 GMT -5
Best idea: find a way to make the G41 mauser Bolt action, and when you face an SMG, semi-auto
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