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Post by patrickl29th on Dec 9, 2014 15:21:42 GMT -5
In my opinion Impressions are far more important than getting airsoft guns. It seems like so many people would rather spend a bunch of money on a gun than working on their impression. Lots of people at the events let you borrow extra guns. I will recommend getting a airsoft gun later on but first I believe people should work on impressions first.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Dec 9, 2014 17:16:34 GMT -5
I agree especially for more common kits like USGI, Brit Para, Ger Heer and so on as most of these kits can use simple guns like thompson, stens or mp40/44's as cheap stand ins for the guns they are perhaps more meant to use like smle's, kar98's and so on
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Post by OwO Jima on Dec 9, 2014 17:19:12 GMT -5
I'll drink to that.
Though, you have to remember that to some folks, this is just an airsoft loadout not an impression, and so airsofting takes priority. That often means a variety of guns to play in different areas and play different roles, and substitutions in authenticity to be more effective as a player. Nothing really wrong with that, it's just a different mentality.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 9, 2014 18:04:49 GMT -5
I have the opposite opinion here. I believe in getting a good gun, up and running, first. As in any impression, era or modern, if you don't have a good gun, you are SOL out there. Also, without an appropriate military impression, or anyone to loan you stuff, and you have a solid gun, you can always go to a thrift store and get yourself a French or Polish resistance impression. Its not the "coolest" impressions you can get, but definitely get you into the WWII feel.
patrickl29th, by the same token, plenty of people have loaner gear and uniforms that one can borrow. Hell, a lot of us have full impressions and guns as loaner gear. So, Impression Over Gun and Gun over Impression can go both ways.
Eh, just my idea behind it all. Not saying anyone is wrong about "Impression Over Gun", since a solid looking impression is also needed for what we do, but maybe the Corps drilled the whole "Your rifle is the single most important piece of gear" concept into me too much. haha.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Dec 9, 2014 18:04:56 GMT -5
This thread: YES! I've been meaning to make this thread. many people NEED to work on their impressions. Impressions should be more important than guns.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Dec 9, 2014 18:09:57 GMT -5
OK, heres one thought to put out: Many people here have MANY guns, yet impressions that are only 50% or worse. You only need 1 gun. many people here should consider selling their guns, and getting better impressions. ya can't really complain about money when you have 10 guns, yet no full, 90% impressions. Again, just my zwei pfennig.
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Post by ssgjoe on Dec 9, 2014 18:43:33 GMT -5
I agree. Impressions are more important. The reason we have impressions is to actually take us back in time, the WWII guns can be used in modern kits, but only the impression can be used as WWII if you know what I'm talking about. Even if both situations is pitiful, I'd rather have a bunch of guys in great impressions running around with bolt action snipers and M14s than a bunch of guys running around with WWII guns but all partisans or even modern kit. Even if any event like these happened..I wouldn't attend LOL this is reenacting, not just airsoft. Let's make this as high on authenticity and accuracy as Blank Fire.
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Post by patrickl29th on Dec 9, 2014 19:04:27 GMT -5
Its ww2 airsoft not airsofting with ww2 guns... That's my point
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Dec 9, 2014 19:05:02 GMT -5
^ Amen to that, joe. This isn't just ww2 cosplay airsoft, its SUPPOSED to be a form of reenacting. I can imagine money being an issue, but; 1. haircuts don't cost much, and Ive seen plenty of horrendous hair. 2. NO reason to have a bad impression when you have a bunch of guns.
I notice people's kit MUCH more then if they have a springer m1 carbine vs. a JAC Bar. Again, just my 2 pfennig.
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Post by ssgjoe on Dec 9, 2014 19:56:32 GMT -5
Same. I'd rather use a crappy gun but have a top notch impression than the other way around
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Post by ssgjoe on Dec 9, 2014 20:01:27 GMT -5
Impressions are what actually make it WWII, not the guns. If you would much rather have a nice gun but only a 15 foot passing "impression", you may have every right to this hobby, but I think you'd get more out of modern airsoft than WWII airsoft.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Dec 9, 2014 20:06:17 GMT -5
^Again, Amen. Awesome points, couldn't agree more!
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Post by aldrich on Dec 9, 2014 20:12:43 GMT -5
In many ways I agree with the uniform first mentality, in many ways I also agree with the gun first mentality. Since I have been flipping both sides of this coin in my mind for awhile now I am beginning to think it is two different sides to the same problem, which is a lack of overall investment on the side of the player. While I agree that having a good gun is absolutely critical, I would have to say that I would extremely encourage players to build a basic impression first before buying their second gun. The reason being is the way someone looks doesn't really effect the individual unless they are in front of a mirror, but it effects everyone else's experience of the event. I have had some events ruined because of shoddy "impressions" coupled with modern guns. Guns and impressions go together like the front and back pair of legs on a horse. While the horse can drag itself around with just its front two or back two legs, to everyone else it just looks odd. I in no way expect new players to arrive with complete load-outs and high end guns, and I am more than happy to rent out what I can so they can have what they need. But I would expect veteran players to have themselves squared away to inspire new members, which is not always the case. When we show people pictures of our events we want them to feel inspired, drawn in, and willing to invest in this hobby. Good scenarios, and looking the part will do just that. Just think of what Jump to Destiny was able to do, the pictures and description of that event looked awesome! To me, at least, that is how you draw new players. Just my thoughts.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Dec 9, 2014 20:56:38 GMT -5
Many people here before me have hit the nail on the head. New players should come with at least a partial uniform first. Many people have multiple guns that can be loaned out, but not many have multiple full impressions to give out to people. Of course, there are exceptions, but I find this to be true more often than not.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Dec 9, 2014 22:14:05 GMT -5
a good idea might be to take photos of us in our kit (No glasses or anything that would give it obviouslt away as airsoft) and post them on the "living history: show your impressions" facebook page. Ask them to rate your kit, and give advice on whats wrong and what to improve. That could help many of us a lot, and is a great resource.
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Post by aldrich on Dec 9, 2014 22:47:12 GMT -5
This is true, there is a wealth of information in the blankfire reenacting community that people should use. But I also find the impression page here to be just as useful as one can not only show their impression, but it also involves the whole WWII airsofting community and should be used more often. If authenticity is an issue, I think the best thing to do for any organization is to set a common set of goals and values for players to reference that are easy to attain. For example, a GI unit may identify that each player should have a gun, a set of plain leather boots, leggings, wool pants, wool shirt, M1 helmet, and appropriate cartridge belt before building up their armoury. Veteran players should then hold themselves to this standard and help new players to gradually meet it as well. That way even players who are not well versed in WWII uniforms will have a set of easy goals and values to aim for. If they will not make an effort to meet even these standards then WWII airsoft is not meant for them.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 9, 2014 23:38:52 GMT -5
Well, I think I should rephrase or add on to what I said earlier. I still hold the idea of getting a good gun first and foremost. However though, I agree that most players only need to concern themselves with just ONE main gun. Get a good gun, and work on the impression. Only people who should worry about building an armory is those who plan on loaning out guns or have a team under them. Like I do, haha. Once I finally get a strong base, I'm going to finally start making my German impression look good.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 10, 2014 1:04:12 GMT -5
I am a tactician first and a living history person second. I really get immersed when the action and intensity of play is authentic. For me the look has to be good but doesn't have to be stitch nazi perfect. just as some people cringe about modern leather boots under leggings in the same way that I do over sneakers, I hate watching game play that in no way resembles combat from even a casually trained Infantry unit.
As a combat veteran its the gameplay married to the costumes that I enjoy NOT the costumes loosely married to the gameplay. If the look is 85% there and the unit is moving and acting in a tactically sound manner I'm thrilled. Airsoft, spray and pray, 40 round bursts from weapons other than the crew served weapons and hi cap magazines is my turnoff. Watching even the most button down reenactor group in perfect impression, move, react to fire and conduct operations in an inaccurate manner is far more disturbing to me. That doesn't make me right and others wrong its just who I am and how I feel.
Like everyone i have my own level of appearance standards and whats acceptable or not but one of the challenges with our hobby is you're never going to consistently get a group larger then four folks who universally agree with whats perfectly acceptable to them. To grow and improve our hobby compromises and lots of generosity is needed. As for weapons, not too long ago having a skirmishable, accurate WW2 airsoft weapon other than a Thompson was a $700.00 plus proposition. Lots of burlap covered AKs was the norm. With selection and prices now quite affordable a blind eye to clearly wrong weapons just isn't acceptable.
With tactics, weapons, uniforms, gear and unit history we all have a lot to share with one another.
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Post by patrickl29th on Dec 10, 2014 15:07:22 GMT -5
I really don't think money is a problem with impressions when people put over 100 dollars worth of upgrades in there gun...
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Dec 10, 2014 15:13:38 GMT -5
One other honest question: why does it seem many people like plastic helmets, even for their main impression? I see it very frequently at events here in NE. US helmets are extremely cheap, I don't see why plastic helmets are needed...?
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Dec 10, 2014 15:22:13 GMT -5
Lightweight?
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Dec 10, 2014 15:24:50 GMT -5
But, again, this is reenacting, or a form of it. If you cant handle a 3 pound helmet on your head, well....
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Post by patrickl29th on Dec 10, 2014 15:25:40 GMT -5
If you cant handle a 3 pound helmet on your head than you probably cant even wear full webgear....
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Dec 10, 2014 17:14:53 GMT -5
well it is possible they have a weak neck? I don't know, people are pry trying to save weight. You aren't going to go out to a day game with your shovel, tent half and other things would you?
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Post by ssgjoe on Dec 10, 2014 19:11:49 GMT -5
I go to an event with full webgear and a steel helmet. It's not that hard. If you do it, you'll get used to it, it did not take me long at all to get used to.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 10, 2014 20:01:45 GMT -5
They only real reason why I can think of that is the price. At a decent costume store, not like Spirit or Party City, but some thing more legit, you can usually find a decent looking, plastic M1 Helmet for 15 bucks. Cover it up with a net, with burlap or foliage and it looks fine.
However though, the metal US M1 helmets are much much cheaper than any Stahlhelm I've seen, so there is no excuse there.
Only other thing I can think of, is that a person might think that since this is airsoft, what do they need a real armored helmet for? It something I see in general airsoft. Its quite funny how some of these "operator" wannabes wear 5.11 plate carries with legit plates for airsoft, but they skip out on kevlar helmets.
In my defense of my cheapo plastic stahlhelm, I picked it up awhile ago, its what I have at the moment. I have to make it work for now. Headgear is the one the first things I'm upgrading once I get around to my team's German impressions.
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Post by luftwelle93 on Dec 10, 2014 21:29:04 GMT -5
I think for airsoft its important to just do a basic impression in order to be cost effective and not complicated.I think for many airsoft groups 100% accuracy is not necessary.Things like boots can be expensive (as with many parts of kit).With my boots I just use German looking modern boots to stand in while I get better ones.This stems the cost while you save money for other important parts of kit.Hiki Shop with its low prices helps a lot if you want to go on the cheap
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 11, 2014 0:02:20 GMT -5
In my case I have 20 US impressions that i use as rentl or loaner gear and ( thus far ) eight German impressions. While some of these are actual steel pots most are plastic replicas which I go to great lengths to make look authentic even close up. In this case the savings (although minimal) really add up. En masse they look very good (in my opinion) and in any event I would rather see a manuever element of 20 to 30 hodgepodge guys than six who look perfect. Have you looked at actual GIs in Northern Europe the Meditteranean or the Pacific? they looked generally pretty hodgepodge.
I defy any stitch nazi to spot which of my GI helmets are plastic and which are real from five feet away! Light weight and lacking in the authentic experience? Absolutely. As a guy who was in the original screenplay and lugged a 70 pound ruck and in many cases a real brain bucket I'm okay that people can pass on that experience. My artificial knees wouldn't exist today if I could have skipped it.
If its authenticity you crave start here: Lug a brick for every 150 rounds of Bbs you decide to carry onto the field. that alone will make all aspects of airsoft more realistic
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Post by ssgjoe on Dec 11, 2014 0:17:34 GMT -5
You wouldn't need to carry that much weight if you already carry everything that the soldier you're portraying carried.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Dec 11, 2014 0:24:40 GMT -5
Well in the field, most would leave their kits back at base or a bit behind the front lines so thats why, many don't necessarily have all the field gear in battle in pictures.
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