29ththerealpimps
Private 1st Class
3rd Armored Division 32nd Armored Regiment 83rd Recon Battalion
Posts: 706
|
Post by 29ththerealpimps on Sept 2, 2006 21:28:41 GMT -5
Does anyone own or has seen a Star SAW with box mag on the field My parents are gonna get me an airsoft gun for christmas and that is the one I want I am getting the one w/ the paratrooper stock can someone tell me if it is a good gun
|
|
YankeeDiv26
Staff Sgt.
Frustrated Mac Owner
BDM<33
Posts: 2,462
|
Post by YankeeDiv26 on Sept 2, 2006 23:19:25 GMT -5
i havent seen one in person but my buddie has had one for a while and he says its a good gun. i think that top makes a full metal version but its more expensive. you already probably know that but im just givin ya other options
|
|
|
Post by gunfreak on Sept 3, 2006 4:51:47 GMT -5
wll there are three M249
The TOP wich sucks butt. the STAR wich i have, and has never worked, becasue when i got it the motor was broke. The Classic Army, this is the best one,(one that actuly works most of the time,)
but remember an MG is never as user friendly as a normal AEG, they breake much more often.
|
|
Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
|
Post by Nimlas on Sept 3, 2006 8:05:51 GMT -5
SAW's are pointless. They do the exact same thing as an AEG, but they weigh 5 times the wieght. Unless it's a real caps only game you're just going to get tired faster, for little or no benefit.
But out of all three, I say go with the STAR, because the CA needs a ton of upgrades to be semi useful.
Why don't you just get a real WWII airsoft gun instead?
|
|
|
Post by gunfreak on Sept 3, 2006 8:09:07 GMT -5
well we play with low caps, so the MG with 5000 rounds have a big advantage over a normal aeg with 50-70 rounds
|
|
29ththerealpimps
Private 1st Class
3rd Armored Division 32nd Armored Regiment 83rd Recon Battalion
Posts: 706
|
Post by 29ththerealpimps on Sept 3, 2006 10:04:45 GMT -5
I am getting a SAW and a marushin 98k
|
|
|
Post by mauser98k on Sept 3, 2006 14:49:42 GMT -5
I still think it's Guy on a short bused to buy the marushin... You have heard all you need to about it, the gun just isn't a skirmishable weapon... Get the tanaka. (No you won't snipe with either...It's airsoft) Since you're getting a SAW, you can probably afford to pay more for a top quality kar98. You have to pay the bucks for the right stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Sept 6, 2006 12:15:44 GMT -5
I still think it's Guy on a short bused to buy the marushin... You have heard all you need to about it, the gun just isn't a skirmishable weapon... Get the tanaka. (No you won't snipe with either...It's airsoft) Since you're getting a SAW, you can probably afford to pay more for a top quality kar98. You have to pay the bucks for the right stuff. I totally agree with you on this point!
|
|
Russianboy
Private 1st Class
Oberscharf?hrer
Posts: 502
|
Post by Russianboy on Sept 9, 2006 16:57:07 GMT -5
wll there are three M249 The TOP wich sucks butt. the STAR wich i have, and has never worked, becasue when i got it the motor was broke. The Classic Army, this is the best one,(one that actuly works most of the time,) but remember an MG is never as user friendly as a normal AEG, they breake much more often. SAWs brake only because your puting alot more ammo threw it. I have put about 15,000 rounds threw my SAW. Only issue so far is that I had a jam. On a side note, the TOP box mag is the best box mag made.
|
|
|
Post by Jager.DrĆ¼ on Sept 9, 2006 17:03:07 GMT -5
what is the point of a SAW?
|
|
|
Post by 101steasykid on Sept 9, 2006 18:39:58 GMT -5
squad assault weapon, like here is it in simple terms, the SAW puts a lot rounds into the enemy, while your squad can assult, reload, or just get out of a hot zone, for airsoft, i dont know, you could do as well with a $20 spring pistol
|
|
Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
|
Post by Nimlas on Sept 9, 2006 18:59:26 GMT -5
No it won't do the same thing as a springer. But you could do almost the same thing with an AEG.
|
|
|
Post by wade on Sept 9, 2006 19:09:54 GMT -5
Not to be a "Stitch Not-See" but it's Squad Automatic Weapon. Just thought it was nice to know. Hey, and if you're looking for a SAW I know where you can get a nice Classic Army Para. Go to www.wmiairsoft.com, they're a good, reliable dealer. Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
Post by 101steasykid on Sept 9, 2006 21:40:00 GMT -5
oh my bad, i was thinking on the spot, haha
|
|
|
Post by gunfreak on Sept 10, 2006 14:44:29 GMT -5
wll there are three M249 The TOP wich sucks butt. the STAR wich i have, and has never worked, becasue when i got it the motor was broke. The Classic Army, this is the best one,(one that actuly works most of the time,) but remember an MG is never as user friendly as a normal AEG, they breake much more often. SAWs brake only because your puting alot more ammo threw it. I have put about 15,000 rounds threw my SAW. Only issue so far is that I had a jam. On a side note, the TOP box mag is the best box mag made. I never put a round thru my SAW it was broke when i got it.
|
|
|
Post by 2ndranger on Sept 10, 2006 20:07:56 GMT -5
Get the Tanaka Kar98k!!! Its Beautiful, not disappointed with it yet.
Schutze
|
|
Russianboy
Private 1st Class
Oberscharf?hrer
Posts: 502
|
Post by Russianboy on Sept 10, 2006 21:24:28 GMT -5
K98 and a SAW are very different.
A SAW still has the same job as the real one. But noobs dont move up so it can be pointless. But if you were in a well organized group then it would be very affective. Dont expect to just go out to the field and be affective with a SAW. You need to from a squad that knows what there doing.
|
|
29ththerealpimps
Private 1st Class
3rd Armored Division 32nd Armored Regiment 83rd Recon Battalion
Posts: 706
|
Post by 29ththerealpimps on Sept 10, 2006 22:00:05 GMT -5
I am getting a tanaka kar98k g33/44 mountain G-version with 2 extra mags and a WA m1934 with one extra mag
|
|
Russianboy
Private 1st Class
Oberscharf?hrer
Posts: 502
|
Post by Russianboy on Sept 10, 2006 23:04:58 GMT -5
Good for you, the STAR M249 sucks anyway.
|
|
|
Post by 101steasykid on Sept 11, 2006 4:45:31 GMT -5
sounds great to me, does anyone have a g33/44? tell me how it works out for you
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 11, 2006 16:09:34 GMT -5
The STAR M249 is in my opinion a great value. We have several local folks with them and I have seen them on the field alot and have fired them a great deal. They have proven to be very consistent and as mentioned earlier in low cap only games prove their value on the field in spite of their bulkier design. The STAR is very light compared to the TOP or Classic Army weighing about the same as a typical AEG. In my opinion it's light weight is my only significant critisism. It is somewhat less authentic then the Classic Army or TOP but has been consistently more reliable and very easy to upgrade with a slide in and out gear box.
|
|
|
Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 11, 2006 16:33:04 GMT -5
RB likes to say things about guns he doesn't own but has "researched" on the internet Keep that in mind when he makes comments like his above comment. He did own a CA M249 for a little while though. He can tell you all about that one with actual experience.
|
|
Russianboy
Private 1st Class
Oberscharf?hrer
Posts: 502
|
Post by Russianboy on Sept 11, 2006 18:04:02 GMT -5
I still have it Dan. I think I may keep it...... but, I need to organize a squad so to make it affective.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 13, 2006 13:13:51 GMT -5
There are alot of people who seem obligated to make comments about guns they've never handled or seen. I'm not sure why that is but I guess it just part of our job as forum readers to decide which comments have value and which don't.
I try to be as objective as possible with my input and only comment based on first hand experience or comments from people I trust are informed and unbiased. I had very low expectations on the STAR m249 due to its low price but feel it operates very effectively and reliably. In True Mil Sim games where low cap and real cap magazines are required for all assault guns the presence of SAWs in a realistic configuration is a real addition to the realism of the games. Unfortunately most of them are so expensive and unreliable (I had and sold two TOP M-60s for that reason) that it's hard to find SAWs in common and appropriate use. Without low cap restrictions there is really no point in them.
We've had some success assigning certain gunners as SAW gunners requiring them to have a bi pod on their weapon and a box style magazine so they were realistically identifiable on the field. With the STAR SAW we now have sufficient numbers of SAWs for accurate game play. I do wish however that STAR would come out with a VN era M-60. I upgraded one of my TOP M-60s with a ANGST piston and mech box to replace the hopeless bellows system TOP uses and was still dissapointed in it's reliability
The STAR SAW is only slightly more then an upgraded AEG and has the look and feel of a SAW (Albeit too light in weight) and features and included electric feed box magazine and a fast change mech box. I think they are great. I do wish however they would hurry up and come out with the stand alone mech boxes for sale as they would accomodate mods for other variations such as a .30 Cal or insertion in a gutted TOP M-60 of which there are plenty!
|
|
|
Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Sept 14, 2006 9:15:18 GMT -5
It is very rarely that I have seen a SAW used properly in an Airsoft gameā¦ however, for the few times that I have, I was quite impressed with the tactical value it can provide in the heat of a gun fight.
To whom-ever said you can use a regular AEG to create the same effect as a SAW in an Airsoft game. I would not agree in the slightest. I will agree that an Airsoft AEG can provide quite a bit of cover fire with a high cap, however, you simply cannot deny the superiority of the SAW with its 2,500 round auto fed box magazine! Let me break it down for all of you.
A typical AEG with a 400 round high cap magazine has a rate of fire of only about 400 rounds a minute. This will provide you cover fire for almost exactly a full minute on full auto effectively suppressing an opposing force. Used properly with 5-10 round burst a typical AEG will provide you a longer window of cover fire, however, at the cost of allowing the opposing force to return fire between bursts.
A typical SAW with a 2,500 round box magazine has a rate of fire of around 800 rounds a minute. This will provide you with a full three minutes of cover fire on full auto. This is the most effective way to suppress an opposing force! While you still have the ability to fire in bursts you will not need to while using the SAW.
|
|
|
Post by gunfreak on Sept 14, 2006 14:18:52 GMT -5
on big games there are alot of MG's and it's verry hard for a large attacking force to take a hill defended bye 3-4 MG's, lots of cannonfoder, the best way to take out the MG's are with a 450fps semi auto rifle or a 550 sniper.
if everybody runs around with 450fps fullauto and hicaps there are no point in different roles.
if you have FPS and ammo limits the game gets balanced, then you have a reason for a DM guy and a MG guy in you fireteam.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 14, 2006 18:44:41 GMT -5
The defining point here is that for a SAW to be even close to worthwhile, players depicting riflemen, have to be limited to low cap or real cap magazines. In the example given above by majorray, the 400 round hi cap is way out of realm from a sustained rate of fire for a main battle rifle. Even with the heavy barrel of an M-60 MG and the quick change design you can't maintain a sustained rate as described. Things literally melt. There's a reason in real life combat your assistant gunner wears an aspestos glove. Even the SAW needs to use a 9 to 12 round series of bursts in order to remain in the fight. I have fired real M-60s until they were white hot and glowing. I understand that 6mm Bbs don't have the penetration power or reach of a real steel 7.62 round (duhhhhhh!!!!) and the argument is always made that you need more 6mm rounds going down range to be effective then real rounds (again I say duhhhhh!!!) but the effort should be made to keep things relative and in order for SAWs and MGs to have a legitimate role in your mil sim games (no matter what era you depict) regular riflemens capabilities have to be restricted. At the Gothic Line this weekend, all riflemen will be rstricted to low cap or real cap magazines and will have to fire on semi auto only. Designated BAR gunners can fire fully auto as can sub machine gunners (limited in number) Only the MGs which are fired from bi pods, tripods or vehicular mounts can fire with larger magazine capability then low caps.
It is so cool to play in a game where you fear and respect the sound of a fully auto weapon especially ones spewing sustained auto fire for long bursts. It's cool to see a MG team deploy and have to recover and move forward to continue their support role. Each MG has an Assistant gunner assigned as an ammo bearer and is designated visually with a string of linked bullets.
|
|
|
Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Sept 19, 2006 9:24:28 GMT -5
2nd bat,
what you say is true for a total realism airsoft game. Also, you are right about the real steal guns overheating.
I only wish there were more modern day Airsofters that played total realism Airsoft; which is one of my main reasons for getting into WWII Airsofting, as many WWII Airsofters play with semi real load outs.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 19, 2006 17:39:32 GMT -5
I am spending less and less time doing skirmish modern airsoft for the reasons you mentioned. The period games lean far more toward true Mil Sim whether it's WW2 or Vietnam. There's something about playing with folks who want to take the time to "do it right" I'm not saying "paintsoft" "ready go" airsoft is wrong it's just not the game I want to play. Folks who haven't been able to participate in a well oranized, well structured mil sim game don't know what they are missing. It takes patience and hard work to evolve and create a local group that gets it but once you do it's awesome.
|
|
|
Post by rldairsoft on Oct 4, 2006 17:32:49 GMT -5
There is no point in a SAW they are stupid and over rated.
-rldairsoft
|
|