TommyGunner
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1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 29, 2006 22:57:17 GMT -5
Most of us that own the Tokyo Marui Thompson M1A1/M1928A1 have had this to complain about at one point or another. "Well darn I wish Star would come out with 20rnd mags or 30rnd mags for the Thompson, that way I could buy a whole case and load up with them" or "I really want to buy some 20rnd 190 highcapsmags but they are way expensive and I dont want that many highcaps and at that price its too impractical to buy 5-10 of to fill my mag Bag, or 5 cells with" or even "Boy I shure do wish I had a 50rnd drum mag for my M1928A1" Since I do an early war marine impression I have been hit hard by this and while 30rnd mags are good there really not period correct for me or any other part of the war for that matter as the 20rnd mag was the norm. So I have set out to fix this probem for everyone from the M1928 owners to the M1A1 owners. I have started a project to build (COST EFFECTIVELY) 20rnd mags and 50rnd drum mags that everyone from the pros (schmitty, 2nd bat, ect) to the least experianced are able to make. There are three different projects involved. The first two involve building reall cap 20rnd mags two different ways (a reall steel mag and a Springer mag to the Spring Thompson). The other involves the 50rnd Drum mag (Springer Drum mag) Here are some pictures of a near compleated reall cap 20rnd mag that I built as a prototype. i94.photobucket.com/albums/l116/TommyGunner_2006/clip003.jpgi94.photobucket.com/albums/l116/TommyGunner_2006/clip002.jpgi94.photobucket.com/albums/l116/TommyGunner_2006/clip001.jpg(Hint: this one is a reall steel Seymore 20rnd mag) It may not look like much but there was a ton of work involved just getting it to fit the bottom reciver! As of now I dont want to go into any details about any of the projects as I want them to be a surprise and untill all of the bugs are hammered out so that the steps can be followed by someone wanting to recreat the project. TommyGunner
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Post by Jager.Drü on Dec 29, 2006 23:07:46 GMT -5
nice job so far, they really look like 20 rounders, do you have a place to buy the real steel mags for cheap or in bulk?
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TommyGunner
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1st Marine Division, 1942
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 29, 2006 23:13:23 GMT -5
Well as of yet no, I actually paid $30 for this mag (spure of the moment thing) but at ima-usa.com you can buy them for about $20ish a piece, and since all of the other materials needed to build it cost about a dollar this should be a cheap easy thing to build, but no promises until I have at least the final version finished.
I also plan to build about 20-25 of these mags for myself and then thats it. I would make them for purchase like what 2ndbat did with the garands but I dont have time.
TommyGunner
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Post by Jager.Drü on Dec 29, 2006 23:17:39 GMT -5
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TommyGunner
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1st Marine Division, 1942
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 29, 2006 23:25:29 GMT -5
Not cheap enough, to justify getting them unforunetly, good find though. But thats alright if the reall ones arnt cheap enough, thats where the second plan will come in.
TommyGunner
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Post by Jager.Drü on Dec 29, 2006 23:26:42 GMT -5
ah you got a trick up your sleve. nice good luck
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2006 23:33:36 GMT -5
thats my shirt your wearing!!! how do like it? its been to the canal, so you must feel the "Awe" of it! enjoy!
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TommyGunner
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1st Marine Division, 1942
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 30, 2006 0:38:23 GMT -5
Yes I do have a trick up my sleeve, that trick is to modify the Mags the go to the Spring Thompsons, those are only about $15, but if possible Id rather use the reall mags as they would be easier to convert, the spring ones involve cutting and filling.
Oh and Dirtybrownboy, yes I love this shirt, I am perplexed as to why there are no bottom pockets, they obviously were removed a long time ago quite strange but very unique.
TommyGunner
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2006 1:27:49 GMT -5
they were removed so you can tuck in into your trousers which many did and to tuck them in while in the U.S. the canal veteran told me this.
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Nimlas
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Post by Nimlas on Dec 30, 2006 10:14:13 GMT -5
"It may not look like much but there was a ton of work involved just getting it to fit the bottom reciver!"
Really??? My real-steal USGI mags slide right into my 1928.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 30, 2006 12:59:19 GMT -5
I belive that, I have two Seymore mags, one has been modifyed for the project but, both of them did not fit the bottom reciver, the rail on the mag was too big and had to be filled down signifigantly for them to fit the reciver. It would be possible for different companies that made the mags are slightly different in size from one another.
Infact this is true, I brought my Thompson to a member of the 70th Tank battalions house one time to show him and we tried to fit some reall steel 30rnd mags in it and some fit and some didnt, but the ones that fit were made by a different company than the ones that didnt. (I dont remeber the manufacturs names) and even those had different dimensions than the Tokyo Marui Mags. I guess it all depends on who makes the mags.
TommyGunner
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TommyGunner
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1st Marine Division, 1942
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 30, 2006 17:24:02 GMT -5
UPDATE: Reall steel Seymore 20rnd mag
Ok I just finished putting the internals inside the mag, It holds exactly 20rnds and fires every single one of them on semi and full. Nothing has been glued in place yet as I want to be able to take the mag apart and use it as a blue print for all the mags to follow.
One thing though, if the mag is not empty before you pull it out, 4rnds will pop out of the mag.
I did notice that when using a 20rnd mag you run out of ammo really really fast and in order for a person to be effective on the field with only 20rnd mags they have to have a ton of them roughly 20-25 mags would do it, and still having a highcap as backup would be a good idea. I have also come to the conclusion that when using the 20rnd mags the best tactic to use so you dont run out of ammo fast would be to fire the gun primaraly on semi and use full auto only when the situation gets desperate.
I will either be posting pics of the prototype mag tonight or tomarrow, and I will also describe the items needed and the process to make the mag.
TommyGunner
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Russian
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Post by Russian on Dec 30, 2006 19:24:47 GMT -5
Excellent work, Jeremaia! (Tell me how to spell your name correctly!)
You are doing a fantastic service for the reenacting community by pioneering into this highly sought after area. Keep up the great work!
Russian
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 31, 2006 1:36:23 GMT -5
Hey thats really close, its actually spelled Jeremiah, but good try.
Anyway I really hope that this project is worth it, My goal is to creat a cost effective 20rnd and 50rnd Drum mag, and construct it in a way that it is so simple to make, that people who read this thread will be able to make there own solving the Thompson Mag problems.
As of now the Reall Steel Mag conversion is looking very promising, once I got all the bugs worked out it really is very simple to make and comes out to roughly $30 per mag, so its about the same price as a 60rnd mag but 40rnds less but looks really awsome. Its all in the realistic loadout.
Since I have at least completed the prototype reall Steel conversion I can start on the next conversion for the 20rnd mag, this one will involve the stick mag that goes to the Springer Thompson. Converting the Springer mag may turn out to be more work than the reall steel mag and it may not look as nice but the cost benifits at only $15 per mag may prevail over looks and ease of building, Well see once I get the used Spring Thompson and mag from Blake.
TommyGunner
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 1, 2007 15:22:41 GMT -5
FINISHED: REAL STEEL 20rnd MAG Ok here are the pictures of the completed prototype for the real steel 20rnd mag. Dont let its looks fool you this thing feeds just as good as the stock Tokyo Marui Mags. As I said before nothing inside the mag is glued in place so that it can be taken apart to be used as a blue print for the next mags. I did however build the mag so that all of the components fit so snugly and tightly inside the mag that they hold themselves inplace thus increasing the stability of the mag even when it has been glued together. As you can see I used a cut piece of wood as a spacer in front to position the feeder the correct distance back to feed. Then I used cut pieces of sprue (the long things model kits come attached too) to space the feeder from the back, then I added the one of the top to position the feeder the correct distance from the top of the mag. Since the bottom of the mag plate comes out, after everything as positioned from the top I put foam project board in the bottom to push the mag up into the top spacer and added more foam to also secure the sides to further prevent the feeder from shifting. Without further adue the reall steel 20rnd mag pics compared to the stock Tokyo Marui 60rnd mag. You can see the huge amount of filling I had to do to get the mag to fit the reciever! And a pic of the gun with the mag in a few of my USMC things TommyGunner (P.S. sorry if these pics are really big, I dont know how to resize)
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Post by Jager.Drü on Jan 1, 2007 15:28:41 GMT -5
looks good man!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2007 17:38:06 GMT -5
for some reason the real 20 round mags look a little bit longer than marui "20rd." ones? does anyone else notice this or is it just me? , looks awesome jeremiah!! cant wait to do the same thing.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 1, 2007 17:52:26 GMT -5
I wouldnt be too surprised if this were true, the Marui mags seem to have completely different dimensions than there reall steel counterparts. An example being the reall steel 20rnd mag is slightly skinnier than the 60rnd mag, and the reall steel 30rnd mag is skinnier and slightly longer than the 60rnd marui mag. Overall the Marui mags seem to be fatter and shorter than the reall steel mags.
TommyGunner
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Nimlas
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Post by Nimlas on Jan 1, 2007 18:00:31 GMT -5
It's a nice idea, but in retrospect I think it may end up costing you more money. "I did notice that when using a 20rnd mag you run out of ammo really really fast and in order for a person to be effective on the field with only 20rnd mags they have to have a ton of them roughly 20-25 mags would do it" Having 25 of these gives you 500 rounds. Lets say the average cost per mag is 25. 25x25=625 So thats 500 rounds for 625 dollars? A 420 round marui highcap is what, 40 bucks? Try casting the seymore mag in some type of plastic, it'll be much cheaper in the end, and its not to hard to do. Now, I'm not trying to shoot you down, just alert you to the massive costs of the entire operation. Now this drum mag conversion sounds interesting. Any news so far? ;D Jack
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2007 18:29:10 GMT -5
i like what nimlas said, just mold it in some plastic and mass produce! but then again he may have something up his sleeve, lets wait and see in his finished project.
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napalm
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Post by napalm on Jan 1, 2007 18:36:32 GMT -5
You think it's possible to make the capacity MORE than 20 rounds like say... 50? If you could, then spending $25 per mag wouldn't be so bad.
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Cpl. Hicks
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Jan 1, 2007 18:58:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind spending $25+ for a drum mag though! I would really like one of those. ;D
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 1, 2007 19:13:55 GMT -5
Nimlas:Well you are correct cost per mag is cheap"er" but in the required numbers like you said I lose money. I did say in my requirements that I wanted to make a "cost effective mag" which does not look like it will happen with the reall steel conversion. The point of this project is to get away from the 60rnd, 420rnd and 190rnd mags and actually carry reall cap mags, that way you are truly forced to make very shot count just like in reall combate. Now concerning making plastic molds thats absolutly possible since I make model aircraft I also make resin molds so I can duplicate pieces I make, I have not however made anything this large before and it may take several tries but it is possible, more time is involved but possible. The 50rnd Drum mag is still in planning and I still need to buy a Springer 50rnd drum mag yet, but this one will be a high cap useing the 190rnd mag. Napalm:Upping the ammount of rnds in the mag to 50 would be contradictory of the project to produce reall cap mags. Dirtybrownboy:The trick up my sleve will involve the stick mag that goes to the Springer Thompson. Converting the Springer mag may turn out to be more work than the reall steel mag and it may not look as nice but the cost benifits at only $10-$15 per mag may prevail over looks and ease of building, Well see once I get the used Spring Thompson and mag from Blake. Still not as cheap in numbers as I would like it to be but much closer to being practical to use. Thanks for all the insite though you guys its helping the project alot. TommyGunner
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Post by schmitty on Jan 1, 2007 19:18:39 GMT -5
Nice job Tommy Gunner!! It's nice to see this type of ingenuity. I don't think the price is that bad. WWII airsoft isn't about doing things cheaply, it's about realism and this is it!! I can't see lugging 25 mags around as being very realistic. Do you really need 500 shots before reloading your mags? 5 or 6 mags seems like plenty.
Schmitty
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 1, 2007 19:37:29 GMT -5
Wow a complement from Schimitty, the conversion god, and on my very first project. Well I am humbled.
On the subject on the number of mags being carried Joe Levato who was in the USMC said he carried about that many 20rnd mags when he could so I simply based it off of that, I personally wouldnt be caught dead with less than 10 20rnd mags on me, so I guess 25 mags is a bit of over kill. I guess I got caught up in the moment with numbers.
The type of loadout I was actually going for would be 10 20rnd mags and 2 reall cap 50rnd Drum mags. Well see what happens when I start the Stick and Drum springer mag conversions next week.
TommyGunner
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Post by spitfire740 on Jan 1, 2007 23:57:05 GMT -5
Excellent, Jer! I began to realize that the 190 round highcaps just don't work, when the axis does massive banzai charges that go straight into a wall of BB's. Clearly alot of work was put into this. This makes ww2 airsoft much, much more realistic. Great work!
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 2, 2007 2:48:14 GMT -5
Thanks realism is what were going for in WW2AA, thats also what seperates us from most modern airsofters and pantsofters.
Concerning the number of mags carried I was thinking maybe I should get some input as to the effectiveness of the number of mags caried by the Namsofters and the guys in it who use the star 20rnd mags for the M-16, there in the same boat concerning loadout. I should ask them how much ammo they go thru in 20rnd mags. (anyone here an Namsofter?)
TommyGunner
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Post by 101steasykid on Jan 2, 2007 5:53:58 GMT -5
I am! unforunity, i do not own a M16, but have used one about 1 or 2 years ago. I carryed about 8 mags in my pouches, plus i put some into 4 pocket bandoliers, not the standard m16 bandolier, but it worked for me. IF you are on an assualt team, 12 mags just dont seem to cut it. Every time I seemed to be reloading atleast 4 mags by the end of the run, maybe 30 minute game. If you arent on assault, aka not blast everyone with 10-15 bb's, you should be okay with 8-10 mags. This seems like a get idea, but somes time become a bb hose and it seems no type of mag has enough ammo. If i was ever to get a thompson, probaly this summer, i was gonna get a 20 rnd mag, but i just think WWII should be hell, so ill probly do this conversion as well, or if you ever find a good cost efective way to sell them, im aboard. Great idea by the way.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Jan 2, 2007 9:58:57 GMT -5
I have star low caps for my AK, I carry 7 its not that bad you just reload after fire fights, all I can say is you will need to get a dump pouch to dump the empty mags.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 2, 2007 14:52:46 GMT -5
I am a huge fan of low cap magazines and real cap adds even more to the added realism we all say we're striving for. Your efforts are to be applauded. With the small magazine speed loaders that are available a player should be able to get by with perhaps 5 or six real cap magazines. You can reload those magazines far quicker then you would a real magazine that should off set the deficit.
Some of my most exciting moments in airsoft have been huddled and busily reloading mags either for myself or for team mates while under seige.
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