TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 2, 2007 15:23:45 GMT -5
So then between 5-10 20rnd mags with speed loaders should be enough for a game then. Well if Schmitty and 2nd bat say thats good enough, well I dont know better authority figures than them, Im convinced.
So lets see here 5 20rnd mags at $25 a piece will cost $125 and 10 20rnd mags at $25 a piece will cost $250. I guess like Schimitty said WW2 airsoft is not about doing things cheaply its about the realism. Sometimes cost can take a back seat to realsim if a person wants too, I know I do and plan on making 12 20rnd mags (6 per smg ammo bag simply to even things out)
Next phase 30rnd mag to 20rnd Springer conversion
TommyGunner
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Post by wade on Jan 2, 2007 17:39:13 GMT -5
10 20rnd mags at $25 a piece will cost $250. Still that's better than paying $380 for 10 Marui "20rnd." magazines.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 2, 2007 22:14:31 GMT -5
I guess that is true, if person wants to be able to have a full 5cell pouch of 20rnd mags they would have to spend $40 per mag adding up to $200. Or 10 can be built for $25 per mag and you'll only spend $50 more but get five more mags. Heck thats enough for me to want to use reall cap mags.
TommyGunner
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2007 23:33:35 GMT -5
"Some of my most exciting moments in airsoft have been huddled and busily reloading mags either for myself or for team mates while under seige. "
i totally agree, theres nothing better than being pinned down and changing magazines while things are at the most absolute chaotic! It is what i strive for!
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 6, 2007 15:30:37 GMT -5
MAG CONVERSION UPDATE!
SPRINGER THOMPSON MAG
Today I bought the Springer M1928A1 from Blake and as soon as I got home I started to check the 30rnd stcik mag out. I have to say it fits beutifully into the M1A1 reciver but when I unscrewed the mag I decided that it would be too much work to strip everything out till it was bare and start new.
I also did some price comparison and I found the reall price of a springer mag is $15 or $20 depending on what web site has a sale on them. But I did find at sportsmansguide.com you can buy the reall steel mags individually for $20 a mag. Pros and cons
Pros: Reall Steel: No ripping out internals of mag (open bottom plate and slide spring out) Easy to install airsoft internals Already a 20rnd mag
Springer Stick Mag: No modification to make it fit the reciver $5 cheaper
Cons: Reall Steel: Mag slide needs to be filled down to make mag fit the reciver
Springer Stick Mag: Existing internals do not work Internals very hard to take out without damaging the mag. Need to shorten the mag to 20rnds Need to make new bottom plate
In short the Reall Steel mag is $5 more and there is very little that needs to be modifyed to make the mag fit the gun and install the airsoft internals, while the Springer requires a reduculous ammount of work to first make the mag ready to even install the internals into, then you have to actually install the correct internals.
TommyGunner
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 8, 2007 15:12:36 GMT -5
Well Im gearing up for my next quest into the Thomspon mag conversion the 50rnd drum mag.
I am a bit aprehensive though at the difficulty of converting the Springer 50rnd drum mag. If its anything like the Springer 30rnd Stick mag this conversion will be quite difficult and risque.
The main thing I am concerned about is the Drum mag fitting into the Mosquito molds M1928 Reciver, I am happy to say though that I have one of the kits reserved and it will be shipped to me as soon as it arrives at airsoftnw.com. From there once the Thompson has been converted into an M1928A1 I will purchase the Drum mag.
There will be two versions of the mag I intend to make. The first version sticking with the reall cap oath I took and making the Drum mag hold 50rnds, the other one will actually be a highcap useing a modifyed 190rnd mag.
Costs: Reall cap $30
Highcap $70 $40 for 190rnd mag $30 for Springer 50rnd Drum Mag
I should have this conversion done in about 2 weeks.
TommyGunner
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 8, 2007 18:38:03 GMT -5
Well I found my first hitch in the 50rnd Drum mag conversion . Heres the problem they way the Springer Drum mag loads into the Springer Thompson is completly different from the way the Real Steel Gun and mag load. Reall Steel As you all know the M1928 reciver has two grooves on either side of where the mag loads in, there are rails on the Drum Mag that slide into the grooves from either the left or right side, in short you load the mag from the side. Heres a Reall Steel mag to compare to the Springer one down below. Cheap Springer Thomspon The way the Spring Thomspon works is in the reciver there is a large rectangular box that sits spanning the length, not width, of the reciver. This is where the prong that loads the bbs into from the mag goes up onto and where the chamber for firing the gun is. This posed a problem becuase this way of loading the bbs into the gun also blocks the reciver from sliding in the Drum mag, so to remedy the problem, just like the stick mag the Drum mag also loads from the bottom. Now heres the kicker, so the mag can go up into the reciver they did away with the portion of the rail exactly the width of the reciver so when it was loaded you could never tell the mag slides up instead of to the side, thus there is no way to slide the mag into an actuall M1928 reciver since there is no rail on the mag for the reciver to lock onto. Hopefully you can see what Im talking about from this picture. Hope that was not too confusing. I will still be buying a Springer mag and I will try to build a new rail for mag so it can ba used with the M1928 reciver. But I am also going to look for the Reall Steel Drum mag and see if that can be modifyed. One of the memebrs of the 70th has an M1928 with a 50rnd Drum Mag, I may use his to see if it will fit the Mosquito Molds reciver and if it does I will soon be looking for a Reall Steel Drum Mag, (Im shure the really expensive though) TommyGunner
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 9, 2007 0:24:46 GMT -5
Well looks like I will not be at any time ever building an airsoft 50rnd Drum mag out of a reall steel 50rnd Drum Mag. In looking through the internet I have found the price range to go between $250 and $1500 for a used to unissued reall Steel 50rnd Drum mag. I may be wrong in my pricing and someone might have at some point found a Drum mag within the $60 range if anyone has seen them cheaper I would very much like the input but as of now I have to cancell the idea of even converting a real steel Drum mag as I simply do not have the cash for that.
I did find the Hudson 50rnd Drum mag made for the Cap fireing M1928 but that was priced at $100 and is still too much to spend.
Looks like I will be religated to the hellish task of converting the overly simplified and c@*p for nothing Springer drum mag and at only $20 a mag not $30 as I thought, I am willing to test the conversion out on it.
TommyGunner
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neidy
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Post by neidy on Jan 12, 2007 4:45:39 GMT -5
Looks pretty good but I personally don't ruin real steel things for airsoft (like filing the magazines). I do however, like the fact that you've made realistic hicaps, if not the most realistic hicaps ever made! PS: If anybody needs the "20 round" hicaps (190rd) I have 5 for sale for cheap, PM me
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 12, 2007 13:17:58 GMT -5
Well there are tons of mags out there, litterally millions of them, but this one was trashed anyway, the mag was made for the M1921 Mag release, but you can tell someone made the hole bigger for an M1A1 Mag release.
How much do you want for a 190rnd mag?
TommyGunner
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Post by phantom12321 on Jan 12, 2007 16:07:50 GMT -5
One shot in the dark:
They make drum mags for modern guns. While the interface between mag and receiver may differ, you might be able to order the guts for one (or rip the guts out of one) and install it in the housing from the springer mag. If the interface doesn't match up, this obviously wouldn't work but, it's just a thought.
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neidy
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Post by neidy on Jan 12, 2007 17:49:45 GMT -5
that is a good idea phantom. You could buy something like a TOP magazine and modify the externals to make it fit a thompson drum magazine.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Jan 13, 2007 2:55:05 GMT -5
How much do they cost, remeber Im going for cost effectiveness here too, and as it stands the 50rnd Dum mag will only cost at most $25 so its plausable to carry two Drums plus 5-10 20rnd mags and not destroy you wallet in the process.
TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 7, 2007 12:56:16 GMT -5
UPDATE:
Alright now that, as of last week, I have converted my M1A1 into the M1928A1 (great conversion kit by the way, might give it more of Gun metal finish later though) I am ready to start the Drum Mag conversion so I have been looking around and am currently working on aquireing a used Springer Drum mag and a used 190rnd mag. If all goes well I will have the 190rnd mag and Drum mag very soon.
I would like to go into some of the pre conversion specifics of the Drum Mag I intend to make.
SPECS:
As I was pondering how to make internals that will satisfy the 50rnd reall cap requirements the little devil inside me was also tempted to make a masive highcap out of the Drum mag as well (we all know that there unrealistic but fun to use and blast someone away with). I also wanted to make a high cap mag so that the Thompson can be used to forfill the role of a 30cal MG until we have an actuall Airsoft 30cal to use.
The high cap part of the mag will only be used in the role of an MG or LMG, other wise for regular infantry use the mag will only be used with the 50rnd loadout.
Well I have found the solution, the internals of the Drum mag will be set up so that you can load the mag to the required reall cap of 50rnds but it will also be set up so that you can load the mag to hold between 400-600rnds (depending on how much space I have in the mag)
This will be achived by converting the 190rnd mag to fit inside the Drum Mag. To hold the two different ammounts of bbs there will be two chambers inside the mag one on either side of the converted 190rnd mag, one will hold 50rnds and the other will hold 400-600rnds. the 400-600rnd part of the mag will also have a sound reduction device to (hopefully) eliminate the annoying ratteling of the bbs. There will be two different versions of the sound reduction chamber I will build for feeding and holding the ammo but becuase I do not as of yet have the 190rnd Mag or Drum mag to play around with I will not go into the specifics of how the duel chamber set up and sound reduction will actually work until it has been sucessfully converted.
TommyGunner
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Post by phantom12321 on Feb 7, 2007 23:28:45 GMT -5
I saw that grey colored 25 rnd mag you had, it looked kind of narrow. Almost too narrow for the gun.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 8, 2007 14:57:45 GMT -5
Well that was a reall Steel mag, like I said in earlier posts it is interesting to note that when you compare the Marui Mags to reall Steel mags the dimensions are actually quite different, the Marui ones seem to have been built larger than the reall steel ones. I cant say that Im unhappy with the look of the 20rnd mag though, since its a reall steel mag there is no denying that its the correct dimensions and that the Marui ones are the mags that are off.
But also remeber that there were even slightly different sizes in mags between companies who produced the reall Steel mags also, I frankly dont care if the mag looks too small for the gun or too big, if its the reall thing than its right, if its not (tokyo Marui mags) there is a chance it is wrong (I learned this from being an aircraft modeler for Revell) But either way its not that big of a deal to me.
TommyGunner
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Post by troyluginbill on Feb 11, 2007 3:45:34 GMT -5
Tommy gunner good job on the conversion but you can do it way easier and cheaper.
get a short 190 hi-cap and a standard thompson mag (50.00). Take the internals from both. Cut a piece out of the middle of the standard cap so that the bottom and top of the standard together are the length of the short mag. Glue, tape, or whatever to hold the 2 halves together and reinsert into the short mag. Make sure to cut the spring shorter. This gives you a short standard cap.
Now you can take the hi-cap internals from the short and lengthen them with a piece of styrene square tubing that you can get at model stores. Apply the appropriate length between the sections where the hi-cap internals naturally come apart. Again viola you have a new long hi-cap. Sell as you will (10.00) to those who just got a thompson for their standard plus cash and then buy a short mag (30.00) and start all over again.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 16, 2007 0:03:23 GMT -5
Well unfortunetly the deal I was working on to aquire a 50rnd Drum mag for the Springer Thompson didnt work out, so I was wondering if anyone has a 50rnd Drum mag they would like to sell to get the ball rolling on this project again.
The first step in this conversion is to get a Drum mag from, there I can buy the 190rnd mag to put inside it, but if I cant get a Drum mag but still buy the 190rnd mag I will have an extra mag with no where to put it (I already have 5 60rnd mags, 1 420rnd mag and the 20rnd mag) so Im good on ammo and really have no need for a 190rnd mag unless its inside a Drum.
I would buy a Drum mag online but online purchases is a no go for me, its got to be money order, plus the cheaper the better, as Im almost tapped after the M1928 conversion kit ($240) and another $350 purchase.
So again anyone got a Drum mag I can get for below internet price, if so Ill buy it from you! and then I can get the 190rnd mag from someone I was working on purchasing it from originally before I found out I couldnt get a Drum mag.
Any help in assisting me buy a used Drum mag is greatly appreciated!
TommyGunner
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 16, 2007 0:40:46 GMT -5
Tommygunner. You are doing stellar work on this project and it's obvious lots of us are appreciating your efforts. I am going to make some 20 round magazines for my Thompson as I love the concept of realism and frankly like the looks of the shorter magazines in the gun and hate hi caps. My Plan is to make six total. One in the gun and enough to fill a five cell pocket. With a couple hand held speed loaders I think this is fairly authentic. It certainly encourages short bursts and fire discipline. Something most airsofters don't consider is what a real Thompson and 20 stick magazines of ammo would weigh! Someone hear do the research and post the total I think most folks would be shocked. My rule for the typical paintsofter is fine...Let me put bricks totalling the weight you're hauling in ammo and if you're okay with it and actually able to move knock yourself out. They get sober real quickly.
How long do you cut your springs for the 20 round shortened mags?
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 16, 2007 1:13:40 GMT -5
Well right now for the 20rnd mags I actually used the internals from a stick mag from a Shot gun I bough at wall mart, The mag is a long pole that inserts into the front of the shot gun (actually the gun was very accurate and would easly hold its own against AEGs) but I have yet to be able to locate that gun again (even on the sites that sell the cheap guns), so I am currently looking into various pistol mags and their internals to get the right feed mechanism that is workable for an AEG. I could post pictures of the internals from the mag this weekend(with the various dimensions needed) to show everyone what was invloved in making it, but keep in mind I have yet to be able to identify the gun (or even maker as I forgot who made it) the donor internals came from or find a sutable donor mag for reproducability perposes.
The goal of the 20rnd mag was to find very cheap readily available internals from donor mags that could be with little modification installed into a Reall Steel 20rnd mag so people who have never made anything for airsoft before could make them. So far it worked but dang if I cant find the internals again, or ones that will work.
2ndBat, One probelm with the current internals I use is that you can not use a speed loader as the rounds just pop back up into the loader. A peice of copper tubing cut down for 20rnds however works great though.
TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 16, 2007 13:56:00 GMT -5
BRAIN STORMING GONE RIGHT!
HUGE UPDATE!
Last night I was pondering the probelms asociated with getting internals and then lining them up inside the mag and everyting else required to set up a 20rnd mag useing the reall Steel mags.
Then in occured to me there is another way this could possibly be done.
The best way to build a 20rnd mag (even easier than modifying the reall steel) is to buy a 60rnd mag from Tokyo Marui.
First take out the internals from the 60rnd mag. Second, from the top of 60rnd mag slide rail measure down exactly 5 inches. This is where you need to cut the botom of the mag away to make the 60rnd mag the same length as a 20rnd mag. After you have done that, you now must focus you attention on the internals from the 60rnd mag. Take the internals of the mag appart and measure down 5 inches, this is where the bottom of the internals and the bottom of the mag will meet. Make the cut there cutting away the bttom of the interlas, and after you have done that cut the spring to a lenght that will run the full length of the internals also, be shure to cut the pole that holdes the spring straight inside the mag, down a little over a 1/2 inch too.
After you have cut the internals down and the exterior down, simply slide the new internals back up into the modifyed exterior and add the spring inside the hole left at the bottom of the internals, then simply add a bit of superglue to any spot that will come into contact with the bottom plate and glue the bottom plate on to the bottom of the mag. Now you have a 20rnd mag simple and easy from a converted 60rnd mag. Oh and one last step, the 20rnd mag has 4 holes on one side of it but after modifying the 60rnd mag you will have one extra hole left at the bottom, simply putty that hole over and paint the exterior of the mag with Gun metal colored paint.
Another thing you could do is to modify the internals as descibed above and slide them into a reall Steel 20rnd mag, but Seymore Mags are too narrow to accomodate the internals form the 60rnd mag without sanding them down, and even then there is a risk of misalignment and ruining your efforts.
Besides being far easier to make than using the Reall Steel mage and donor internals from another gun there is also the $ factor, to make a mag out of the Reall Steel mag it will cost roughly $30 when finished, but that is the exact same cost of a 60rnd mag.
I would love to make one of these mags today, (infact you could be finished in 10 minents these are so easy to build) but I have the exact number of 30rnd mags to fill my 2 3cell ammo pouches or my 5cell, and since I use the impression with my 2 3cells more than my 5cell to have an odd number of 30rnd mags is not somthing I want. I will however be putting the Drum mag on hold once again and buying 1 or 2 60rnd mags to convert for the project.
TommyGunner
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 21, 2007 8:22:59 GMT -5
UPDATE:
Welll last night I I got a late christmass present from my Grandparents (Cash Rocks!) so I decided that since I had gotten enough cash to buy several new 60rnd mags that I would be able to convert one of my older 60rnd mags to a 20rnd mag as a test run.
At 5:55pm I started the conversion by cutting the bottom portion of the mag away at the correct length to make the outershell the same length as my reall steel 20rnd mag. I was finsihed cutting and sanding down the bottom of the mag with a file by 6:00pm. At 6:05pm I had taken the internals apart and cut the internals of the mag to fit inside the new exterior, this included the spring also which I mad an extra 2 inches long to ensure I had enough force to push the rnds up into the gun. By 6:10 I had the internals back inside the exterior and sanded it down to match perfectly with the length of the exterior housing. after that I superglued the bottom of the spring plate in to hold in the spring and then over that I put the bottom plate of the mag back on by superglueing it and was finished by 6:12pm.
This conversion was so easy it took me about 17 minents to do, and after you buy the 60rnd mag there is nothing else besides superglue tat you have to buy to make a 20rnd mag, so total time and cost, 17 minents at $30 per mag!
Ill be posting pictures up tomarrow afternoon or Friday afternoon, of the modifyed 60rnd mag to 20rnd mag, and Ill also be posting up pictures of the internals from the Reall Steel Mag I built.
Personally after modifying the 60rnd mag to 20rnd I dont think Ill be building another airsoft mag out of a reall steel mag as this conversion was so simple its unbelevable, the Reall steel mag, although cool was just too much work for about the same amount of money when compared to converting the 60rnd mag. Plus it would be far easier for a person to convert there 60rnd mags to 20rnds mags, than to convert the reall steel mag.
TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 27, 2007 12:48:16 GMT -5
Alright Back on track here, I just sent a Money order to a member here called Neidy who has greaciously decided to sell me a 60rnd mag and a 190rnd mag for the conversions.
I have wanted to post pictures up on the converted 60rnd mag but when I glued the bottom plate on extra super glue accedentally glued the internals to the side of the mag wall, therefore I couldnt take that one appart. So after I convert the 60rnd mag from Niedy this week, before I glue everything together Ill post pics of the modifyed portions of the mag.
Also I have decided that I will be making the 190rnd mag internals removable from the 50rnd drum mag incase I do not wish to carry a Drum mag. I will simply take out the unmodifyed 190rnd mag internals and pop it back into the 20rnd mag exterior and carry a 190rnd mag in my 5cell ( I need some highcaps as the Thomspon doubles as our squad MG till I build the 30cal)
TommyGunner
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 27, 2007 20:34:27 GMT -5
Just so I'm clear. You're only cutting the springs an extra 2 inch over and above the length of the shortened stick mag, and that provides enough force to drive the BBs? I would have thought you'd need more excess then that to provide tension (especially over time)
What is the exact length of a real steel 20 round magazine? I'm going to do up some mags this way for sure. I've always liked the looks of the shorter 20 round magazines in the Thompson and like you I appreciate the way they fit in the five cell pouches better.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 28, 2007 12:22:26 GMT -5
Ill get you some exact mesurments latter on today, but yeah it turns out after the mag has been shortened you can fit exactly 20rnds into the mag, if the spring is any longer than the length of the mag plus the 2 extra inches that last round wont fit and youll only have a 19rnd mag.
TommyGunner
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DeB
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Post by DeB on Feb 28, 2007 16:26:34 GMT -5
Hi Tommy! I was wondering about using a top part of a normal "20 rnds" mag and attached to a CD Tower Cover maybe a 25 CDs cover. - Are the dimensions similar? Idon't know... -They need to be customed to get similar to a real Thompson Drum... Pros: -they are quite Free.... I get them from friends! Only a brainstorm dictate from experience...
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Mar 1, 2007 8:28:00 GMT -5
Unfortunetly no they are way to small to pass as a drum mag, but simply buy the $20 Springer Drum mag and throw in a 190rnd mag and you have a very nice highcap Drum mag.
Ill be posting soon on how to do that conversion.
TommyGunner
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Mar 5, 2007 18:41:06 GMT -5
UPDATE, WITH PICTURES!Alright here are the pictures I have promised you guys, they show the internals of the converted Reall Steel 20rnd mag and the converted Tokyo Marui 60rnd mag. Heres a picture of all the mags laid out with there internals also. On the left is the converted 60rnd mag, in the center is the unconverted 60rnd mag, and on the right is the converted Reall Steel 20rnd mag. Heres a pic of the converted 60rnd mag with the modifyed internals and exterior. Heres a pic of the mag with the internals inside, (Note: To convert the 60rnd mag simply cut just below the 5th hole on the mag, then when you have made the cut putty up the hole and paint the mag a gunmetal paint. Heres a pic of the Converted Reall Steel 20rnd mag, the wood is used as a spacer and the foam project board parts are used to jam the feeder into the right position to line up and feed into the gun. Heres a pic of the two converted mags you can see that once the 60rnd mag is converted and the bottom hole is puttied up you will not be able to tell the difference between the two, thus the conversion from the 60rnd mag works perfectly. Heres a pic of the three mags together, the converted 60rnd mag the standard 60rnd mag and the converted Reall Steel 20rnd mag. Heres a pic of the converted 60rnd mag compared to the stock 60rnd mag, you can see that to convert the mag you simply cut away the extra length at the bottom. And finally here is a pic of the converted 60rnd mag with my new M1928A1 Thompson Sub Machingun TommyGunner
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29ththerealpimps
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Post by 29ththerealpimps on Mar 5, 2007 18:44:56 GMT -5
Sweet! Like the m1928a1 also.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 5, 2007 23:46:51 GMT -5
Tommy gunner,
Great service to the airsoft community. The pictures tell the story wonderfully. I will get started at my first free time and get five of them swapped over. This is a worthwhile great project. Thanks for taking it on and sharing it with everyone.
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