captured weapons?

[kurtsteiner]

the poor old carbine did suffer alot of complaining
it realy comes down to the fact that it used small callibre, small propellent carbine rounds as opposed to the huge full size rifle rounds of the time, the gerry's loved it cus it was small, light and perfect in the assault, especialy urban terain and in the hedgerows of normandy, in both places the range wasn't important, but the manouvreability and amount of rounds fired downrange was.
as for captured weapons, the Brits loved the MP40, especially the airborne troops and the fledgling SAS, it was alot more reliable than the standard issue STEN (or stench gun).
you can ussualy find quite a few pics with airborne troops using them, a few SAS even wore the german field cap aswell. it was seen as a mark of a veteran, not only did you kill the guy with the MP40 and loot it off him, and because MP40's were issued to NCO's, it also meant you had taken out his squad aswell, and then had time to nick his hat afterwards

[mg42]

smokeythebear said:

well I dont think it would really matter just any gun they could grab. off topic did the germans take american 1911's like the americans did with the luger?

The Luger was very well made gun compared to the 1911.... the 1911 could be dropped in the mud, water, dirt, sand whatever and you could pick it up and fire it right away while the Luger wasn't so..if you did anything like that to that gun you would have to clean it first to fire it..... anway I believe the Americans liked the Luger because it was such a well known gun...I'm not sure about how much the germans admired the 1911....

neillblume said:

ive seen pics of americans with mp40s apparently the germans loved the thompson for its rate of fire and reliability and the americans loved the mp40 for its accuracy and reliability. The germans started the war with k98 a vgery good rifle but because of the way their tactics worked the average infantryman did not require so much firepower. that is the theory of course. Someone said that the garand was the rifle of the war except for the ping as it ran out of ammo, informing your enemy you were defenseless. In truth there are some pics i ve seen of single infantrymen with like three differnt guns! k98 + m40, or k43 and mp44

The Germans HATED the american Thompsons... One the Mp40 was more accurate and two the .45 cal ammo was hard to find..... sure the thompson had more stopping power but it wasn't worth it because of the weight and ammo availabilty... More than likely if they did use it..it was just for a short time... like once the mag was empty...they would throw it...

That's my stand point on those posts....

But a good captured gun is the M1 Carbine...lightweight, easy to use, Semi-auto...ideal on the go weapon!

[Nimlas]

kraddatz said:

mg42 said:

But a good captured gun is the M1 Carbine...lightweight, easy to use, Semi-auto...ideal on the go weapon!

yet that too had .45 ammo

Uhhh what?

[Nimlas]

I was referring to the fact that you said the M1 Carbine was a .45 caliber weapon.

[KRaddatz]

oh wow my bad lol

[Adler69]

Captured weapons you said? Hehehehe

[binarypunisher]

Looks like the guy in the last picture has lost a bolt on his helmet too.

Interesting how he has MP40 mag pouches too...notice the gas mask bag strap as well.

[mg42]

adler69 said:

Captured weapons you said? Hehehehe

Ok...I may be wrong...but atleast you have the pictures to prove it...I was just going by what I have heard PLUS I haven't seen those pictures before.... thanks for informing me aswell i guess

[binarypunisher]

There is also this whole thread on Axis History Factbook:
forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=99382

FJ also used a lot of Beretta 38's, apparently they captured a Beretta factory in Italy.

[Guinness]

Ummm......

Weren't the Italians Axis allies in WWII- Up until the end that is when they killed 'Il Duce' and Germans started placing Italian solders in POW camps with Brits and American's.

Point is, I don't think they 'captured' any Beretta's


Also, I wanted to comment on the whole issue of captured weapon's maybe someone has already said this- Pictures of German troops with Thompson's, Stens, .50's, Russian SVT's are all well and good and proof of something I suppose, If you follow the excellent link that Binarypunisher supplied it is suggested that many of the photo's were for 'propaganda' purposes-

But what good does swaping your KAR or MP40 for a M1 Carbine, or Thompson do when the ammo runs out??

Unless we also believe they captured huge cache's of ammo or entire ammo dumps, if I'm Sgt. Schultz and I'm thinking 'Gott im Himmel! Der Tommygun! Al Capone!! Der Gangster!' I'm really just gonna be f***'ed when I run out of bullets- and Gott help me if I'm taken prisoner with a captured weapon at that point. I think we all saw Band of Brothers' and remember what they said to Hoobes when he was trying to get the Luger that eventually did him in. There was a basic common sense reason that US soldiers' were prohibited from using captured armament long term, war trophies aside, you just don't want to stake your life on a weapon with a limited amount of ammo.

[binarypunisher]

When the Italians surrendered is when it happened, from what I remember. The Italians surrendered in 1943 - so it was still roughly mid war.

[CharleyNovember]

Point is and I have to agree that Germans or Amis would probally only pick up a battlefield rummage sale weapon for a trophy or to use short term till the ammo ran out. There are more than enough cheap Axis and Allied weapons around that no one needs to use a captured weapon unless they want to.

[Adler69]

When Italy surrendered , the Beretta Arms factory came under Luftwaffe control , and all Beretta 38 production was spread around mainly to the FJ units , as well asd to the HG division , in the Ost Front , the Germans used captured PPSH's that where converted to use 9x19mm ammo , as well as MP40 magazines , so soldiers using them , didn't have to worry about ammo or mags , also during the opening phase of Barbarosa , German forces captured Tons of Soviet ATT guns and stores of ammo for them , they used them to make self propeled ATT gun carriers , even in France they used French armor that was captured after France surrendered, not to mention the large amounts of French Air Force planes taken by the Germans that where used as training planes by the Luftwaffe , the Luftwaffe had an entire Squadron dedicated to flying British and American captured planes to make overflights of England.

[Guinness]

adler69 said:

When Italy surrendered , the Beretta Arms factory came under Luftwaffe control , and all Beretta 38 production was spread around mainly to the FJ units , as well asd to the HG division , in the Ost Front , the Germans used captured PPSH's that where converted to use 9x19mm ammo , as well as MP40 magazines , so soldiers using them , didn't have to worry about ammo or mags , also during the opening phase of Barbarosa , German forces captured Tons of Soviet ATT guns and stores of ammo for them , they used them to make self propeled ATT gun carriers , even in France they used French armor that was captured after France surrendered, not to mention the large amounts of French Air Force planes taken by the Germans that where used as training planes by the Luftwaffe , the Luftwaffe had an entire Squadron dedicated to flying British and American captured planes to make overflights of England.

I like this guy.... He gots knowledge with a capital K!

Thanks Adler!

[tobemarine]

guinness said:

Ummm......

Weren't the Italians Axis allies in WWII- Up until the end that is when they killed 'Il Duce' and Germans started placing Italian solders in POW camps with Brits and American's.

Just to clear this up, the Italians tried to turn sides halfway through the war, promising the allies a quick route into europe. But the germans knew something was up, so they reenforced Italy just before the treaty was signed. So we had to do the invasion of Sicily.

As I am typing this, I've got a copy of the transalation of the diary of one Otto Skorzenzy, Captain assigned as Chief of Germany's Special Troops. On September the 12th, at 6:00 AM, The twelve gliders carrying the only hope for the Disgraced Italian Dictator landed on a flat plateau near the base.

It took them somewhere near 30 minutes to dispose of or capture 4 dozen guards and general staff acting as a guard force. Some of the now disarmed Italians even helped search for survivors of the one crashed glider of the group.

They were extracted by cargo aircraft and the Duce was restored to power, until captured b partisans in 1945. He and his Mistress were tortured in the streets until dead, then mutilated and strung up, nude, by their ankles.

[CharleyNovember]

PPSh swaps aside. No one makes a decent production PPSh for Germans to exchange. I am aware that Germans liked the Papas because they did not jam in the cold weather like the MP40 did. American/British/French armor and planes are not generally used in airsoft. But I think we can make an exception for Germans using a French tank if someone brings one

[Guinness]

I think the Germans liked the French stuff because it was used lightly and in such good shape when they got it.......

[YankeeDiv26]

lol, nice one guinness, probably had plenty of ammo left too.

[2nd Bat]

Unfortunately the French weapons had never been cleaned, had been dropped once and never fired.

[Guinness]

dangit 2nd ;D

That was the joke I was trying to remember! Thanks I knew it was something like that

[binarypunisher]

The French just have a really unlucky military history.

[Russian]

If one looks at the Germany Army Handbook, circa 1940, one will see classification numbers for French armour, as well as Polish tanks, Polish artillery, Czech tanks and artillery, as well as several other nations that the German army had "aquired" gear from. I'll try to get pictures up eventually. Scanner has been broken for some time now...

[Adler69]

Actually the French put up a better fight than anyone gives them credit for just because they got plowed over by the Germans, don't forget that during the begining phases of the war , the French Army actually went 20 miles into Germany before Paris order them to pull back to the French side of the border.

[tobemarine]

And then the germans bypassed the maginot line, a system of pillboxes and bunkers with artillery that spanned the French-German border. The French had spent twenty years building it. Guiness, that joke was made famous by it's use in Full Metal Jacket.

On the toic of jokes, and France, I've got a good one...

A Spaniard, a Frenchman, and an American were all walking in the desert. The American trips over something, which turns out to be a lamp. He rubs it and a genie pops out. The genie says "well, three guys found me, so you each get one wish." He pointed at the spaniard. "You get the first wish" The Spaniard wished he was back in Spain, with his wife. Next came the Frenchman. The frenchman said "I'm tired of France getting overrun in all these wars. I want a 200 foot concrete wall comepletely surrounding France." "Done," the genie said. Last cam the American.He had a malicous grin on his face, and said"you know that wall you gave the French? Fill it with water".

[Adler69]

Here's a pic of an SS trooper carrying an M1 carbine , not a great pic but you can see that M1 carabine.

[hoodude]

I have seen this picture many times and have never noticed that he was carrying a M1 carbine

[Adler69]

Not a pic of Germans using Allied weapons, but how about this pic for change, it's of French Marine Infantry in Indochina using an MP40.

[binarypunisher]

Wow, great photo Ed!

Any more like it?

Is that a Denison smock the guy on the water buffalo is wearing? And what gun is that? PPSH? Thompson?

[Adler69]

Yeah , the entire squad is wearing the French copy of the Denison smock, the Marine on the far right on the other water buffalo , also has an MP40 , the one closest to the camera might be carrying an M1 Carabine with the para stock.

[Adler69]

here's one of a French soldier guarding a locomotive in Indochina.