SdKfz 123 German Troop Transport - super discount

[efrimann]

Hello everybody - Things have been quiet, but I have expanded my WWII gun selection, and used a lot of time taking meassurement of DP28s, PPs43's and a lot of other stuff.

I decided to learn a 3D tool, and it is getting along nicely. Otherwise, I have been busy at work, a wonderthing in todays economy.

For a couple of evenings I have been pondering over the German SdKfz 250 (small) and SdKfz 251 (large) half tracks. The guys at www.scaledtanks.com really inspired me, but then again: Fragile stuff, and tiny.

How could softair-guys get access to something like a SdKfz without spending a million bucks (last one sold at a US auction) ?
Could a simpler solution be acceptable? I discussed it with a really nice Swedish group, that does a lot in east-front games.

What do you think? Would this one be realistic enough?



The great thing with working with 3D is that when I am happy with my drawings, everything can be turned into stencils and blueprints. The meassures will be correct, since I started with correct values for the pickup car.



The SdKfz 250 version D does not have slanted sides, and has a much simplified back port.




Here the Toyota is visible. I will suggest to my Swedish friends that a metal tube cage encloses the 'riflemen area' so one doesn lean at the outer plating, but a some sort iron tube arrangement.



A running with no licenses, how much it cost...?

[luftwelle93]

Go for it!It looks close enough.It would be sooooo cool and very doable!I can imagine it being in events and would be more useful and immersive.Better than building the entire thing 100% to the bolt

[LϟϟAH1944]

Just make an sdkfz. 247, which did exist.

[brownien]

You could always make mock tracks to attach over the rear tires to try to hide them a bit.

I was actually thinking of doing the same thing! But with a M3 white scout car, no rear tracks to deal with!

[insterburger]

Nice project! I could see such a thing actually happening.

[stuka]

I wonder what would be the best material for this?Plywood maybe? Adds some weight but obviously not as expensive as like sheet metal haaha. This rendering looks pretty good though, props to you sir.

Edit, one possible issue is that there may not be enough ventilation for the engine which could cause it to overheat and obviously be damaging to the engine

[2nd Bat]

i have often thought of the same sort of approach. It seems doable although even doing most of the work yourself and even if you had the machining to make cuts and welds for the framing needed the total dollars would be pretty significant. I agree that facade tracks could be made to work and in reasonably tall grass would not be particularly noticeable. With chains on all the wheels and four wheel drive your mobility would be decent and the sound would be pretty close.

[Dracul]

Don't mean to go too away from WWII with this... I remember reading that some Halo fans, turned some SUV's into Warthogs. By replacing the body with one built out of heavy fiberglass.

Concept is a bit different since you plan to build on top of the body, but maybe it can stir up some ideas.

[brownien]

If you intend to cover the hood area with the fake 250's front end, you may want to remove the truck's hood. It would make it simpler to get at the engine for work.

[ScottCollins]

Couldn't this also be adapted for a half track as well? A greyhound might cause trouble because of the turret, and what it would shoot. And the halftrack would be good for transport use as well as an armored car

[2nd Bat]

efriman welcome back. I agree that a halftrack is more functional for our purposes than an armored car as it can serve as transport and assault. The OST Front boys (Wisconsin) commissioned the build of a beautiful and fully functional halftrack which they use. It is spectacular. I don't even want to think about what that cost.

ww2aa.proboards.com/thread/10957/annual-fort-mccoy-event-august

for materials I have discovered that sheet metal is probably as inexpensive as anything if you have access to cutting tools and welding. Stamped venting on the front plate or some sort of air intake is a good idea for cooling. for a US vehicle (Scout car or Halftrack) the venetian blind type grill armor is clever. A couple other thoughts are foam to create your shape and then fiberglass on top. when my son and I built 1/2 scale flintstone powered Pather tanks we use wood framing covered with fiberboard over sprayed with bedliner spray and the painted. We built these 16 years ago they were left at the paintball field we played at and obviously have given in to the weather. They were pretty cool at the time but I wish I had done the scale larger and built then over a vehicle.

I would recommend you buy a model of the base vehicle if available and then mock up you main facade bits in styrene to see how everything aligns although I suppose all that can be done with CAD computer graphics which would then give you your patterns.

vehicles add a lot to events. Where you store and maintain them is an issue. for a couple years Two of my three garanges stored them. My wife and neighbors were not amused. dogs owners however made a point to stay out of my yard.

[efrimann]

Thanks, 2nd bat. This is good advice, building a scale model on the basis of the CAD patterns. First, I get to check if the patterns are reasonable, second it will give an idea if the whole thing is too crazy.

There will be some struts and girders that needs a practical test, not done with CAD which is many things, but not practical.

Still, it's great fun inventing things on CAD, and I think I'll do a version of the M3 Scout Car for airsoft use, and perhaps figure out how an outer 'shell' of tracks could be made for a SdKfz 25** without being ripped of by the vegetation, or broken by a rock. Some sort of suspension will be necessary, but how?

And this is so far only dreamworks, all right? But the annoying kind that could come true.

[2nd Bat]

For the german vehicles side skirts were often added as protection and these would serve to further disquise the fact that your tracks are in fact not real. Add some overhang beyond you pickup bed (perhaps six or eight inches or so) and have your tracks below that. suspend them four or five inches above the ground (which is more than the typical amount of wheel travel) and because they extend well outside the actual wheel the real wheels won't be apparent. when operating even in moderately tall grass (espeially with the side skirts) the fact that the tracks are non funtional will be barely noticeable.

This project even as you laid it out will be expensive and quite time consuming but in my opinion would be quite fun. A US M3 halftrack or White Scout car would be very cool as well. Still have visions of an M4 Sherman or M10 Wolverine on a Ford Aerostar Minivan cut down at window level and then built around. the grill area could be desquised by dummy burlap sandbags which were often added to the front of tanks as added protection and would be in shape only and provide air flow.

[efrimann]

Your wish is my command. I'll finish a M3 scout car this evening, with an added double door in the rear for easy access. Don't want any of us pot-bellied family dads to get hurt, do we?

Time consuming like hell, but not much more expensive than a nice M4 rifle with polar pressurized air gearbox.

Dream-Work in progress

]

[efrimann]

To Dracul: I thought that keeping (most of) the body of the donor car, a lot structural strength could be kept at a minimum cost and fuzz. Which is also why I keep the roof intact, as well as full door frames, not removing more than a normal sun-roof.

Sigh. The thing is that if I build it and drove it here in Denmark, the cops would - insofar they deemed the area as an area with public access - fine me a million, revoke my drivers lincense, throw me in the dungeons and the key in the deepest pit they could find. They lack any sense of both history and humour...

[volkssturm]

The M3 Scout Car was kind of neat, though it had limitations. It still gave good service in appropriate roles. One ting has always puzzled me. Why they didn't go to dual tires on the rear axle to improve cross-country performance. Long ago (1974-5) I was assigned to Combat Developments Experimentation Command (my vital role was counting trucks and making sure the chow wagon got where it was supposed to go). For one of their tactical experiments they needed some Soviet scout cars, so they made plywood shells that went over the M715 5/4 ton truck (a Jeep Gladiator in OD) to make them look like BTR-40's. They put dual tires on front and rear axles to keep them from getting stuck.

[2nd Bat]

There were plastic(perhaps fiberglass) shells at training aids that we could check out that turned simple 151 Mutts into credible looking Russian scout cars. The shells litterally fit right over the "Jeeps" and bolted into place and could be removed later. The turrets turned and window cover hatches opened and closed. The only significant prep on the Jeeps was removing they foldable windscreen.

Wish I had pictures. Once they had packs and brush attached they looked very credible. There were also convincing soviet tank shells that fit over Sheritans. Some where in military scrap piles...

efrimen. I think for your M3 you actually would be best served to remove the doors and hood altogether and the toyoata front fenders would also have to come off to create some of your shapes. Not sure if you were planning to climb in and out through the windows or perhaps the trucks rear window. Sounds a bit rough to me. Also the roof line on the American scout car and halftrack is really low compared to a commercial pickup so truthfully I suspect your roof would need to either be cut down or removed altogether. Pickups unlike most cars and mini vans have rigid subframes so little rigidity is extended through the roof. Hence they can be cut off. You would of course want to create a frame and have it welded into place to attach things.

If you google paintball tanks you can see some home projects that range from deadfully bad to extremely good and everything in between.

[stuka]

really cool and of course this is all just digital planning, when it comes to making it in person it will likely have some things that may not go according to plan but this shows that it is very do able

[2nd Bat]

Indeed the images of the assorted Paintball tanks are 90% horrid but there are a few that look really quite good. The Hummel is very clever as is the TIGER I on the pick up truck. The Stug was extremely impressive until I realized that in fact it is a real STUG. Clearly a STG would be very doable and the STG III was actually fairly small. The Two Panthers are OKAY especially the one with a little shape to its road wheels. Clever the way they figured out visibility slots with the grating. I wonder if the stick on wraps can be made to be visible in one direction? The most impressive build by far is Ersatzjacks SdZKFWGN Halftrack. the assortment of half scale tanks in th russian battle are impressive as is the engineering students tiny TIGER. I have decided that 3/4 scale is the way to go. Anything smaller is just too distracting. Full scale are just not practical (or tactical) for our purposes.

[efrimann]

www.mortarinvestments.eu/products/armoured-vehicles-4/ot-810-90#currency=USD

Maybe I should just buy one? I've just found an east block version at 36,000 usd plus all expenses.

2nd Bat: I keep on researching, and I'll return when I know more.

[2nd Bat]

Sure why not? Since your posts all seem to be about fantasy "wouldn't it be cool if...". You might as well expand to "what if I won the mega lottery" dreams.

I do think that while expensive and requiring a lot of ork facade appliques to existing commonplace vehicles has some promise and would serve our hobby well. If done well with a genuine effort at authenticity, pseudo armored vehicles would be very cool. Armor is a funny thing. A single vehicle in isolation is quite vulnerable and does not give the full experience of facing or participating in an armored assault. Multiple vehicles (especially three or more) is where the real impact comes in. I have visions of platoons.

There I said it....I'm a dreamer too!

[volkssturm]

Let me just run out back and pick some bills from the money tree....
That is neat. In a perfect world I'd buy one of those in an instant just to drive around the ranch I don't own. (But I would in perfect world).

[2nd Bat]

Its obvious from bouncing around on the internet that a lot of replica armor has been built ranging from armored cars to 1:1scale TIGERs. Many of these are absolutely amazing. The cost and energy of production must be phenomenal. The facade efforts seem to be the most practical in a "BUDGET is a consideration" world.

with an eye for detail and some imagination these appear to me to be worthwhile considerations.

[efrimann]

Dreams get very annoying when there are within reach. I think I'll tinker along with these two cars, and build a 1:6 or 1:35 model after my own drawings. Cheaper to find errors this than in some workshop.

By the way, I am getting along with a PAK36 firing nerf rockets: breech load, scope sight and lorry wheels. Elevation by rotating handle, traverse by body weight. No recoil. Very little welding.

To make it look right within the plywood / plumber tubes scope, I really have had to look at the essence of the design, much more than the actual parts. A bit like stage props, but it will be a bit like a 'last ditch' look. Hell to build, easy to pay, joy to park in the front lawn.

[efrimann]

Oct 25, 2014 11:33:40 GMT -5 efrimann said:

Dreams get very annoying when they are within reach. I think I'll tinker along with these two cars, and build a 1:6 or 1:35 model after my own drawings. Cheaper to find errors this than in some workshop. It seems worth it, a couple of other groups have had somewhat the same attitude, although less precise and perhaps with less insight...

By the way, I am getting along with a PAK36 firing nerf rockets: breech load, scope sight and lorry wheels. Elevation by rotating handle, traverse by body weight. No recoil. Very little welding. This I think I'll build in 1:4, or any scale where the materials, i.e. plastic tubes, are available. My 3D program scales things easily.

To make stuff look right within the plywood / plumber tubes scope, one really has to look at the essence of the dobject's esign, much more than poring over actual parts. A bit like stage props, a bit like a 'last ditch' look. Hell to build, easy to pay, joy to park in the front lawn - or in two of three garages 

Let it be said: What I enjoy most is spending scores of hours, figuring out how to make something, decribing it for everyone to use, and in some cases building it myself. Not always, I don't have the space, nor the aptitude. But some of you might, and I would be happy if my work could give anyone a head start. So it's 'what if' and 'why not' in succession.

I am building a DP28 (damn, it's tight) and a Lee Enfield, and it takes forever. Plus a Colt New Army .45 revolver, a Smith & Wesson .38 'Victory' and a cheapo Winchester M12 Trench Gun. I'll show some photos when everything is done, e-books published and they're hanging on the wall with all the others.

[2nd Bat]

Went to a gun show this weekend and there was a military vehicle show going on as well. One of the fellows had a very unusual, full tracked vehicle I had never seen. It was designed in the late 50s to haul reloads for HAWK missles. It could carry three at a time. The suspension is all Cristie with four road wheels and a front sproket. its about the size of a slall car and is completely open on top like a tractor or go kart. It would be absolutely perfect to build a HETZER body to facadeon top and could easily be a 1:1 scale. It would look fabulous. Now I just have totalk the guy into letting me do it!

[efrimann]

A HETZER could be great. Much simpler than a rotating turret or even a stand alone gun.

We should try to figure out some cheap way to make an effectful ammo:

One with some sort of markers to score 'kills' and another kind that produces noise and smoke.

Both to be fired in the same gun, perhaps with an interchangable metal tube breech-end for the two functions. Or even simpler. It could be some sort of bolt action lock to tighten against a gadsket, and then use a simple fuse/electric ignition for the smoke-job, and a normal valve trigger for the NERF gun.

Both could be preloaded into brass tubes with two different bottom plates, made of simple plumbers parts. One with a hole matching an air outlet surrounded by a rim gadsket, the other with some sort of electric heat Dreyse-needle-arrangement that didn't disturb compressed air when igniting a little fireworks. Or maybe an iron tube for safety with a normal fuse and the 'ball' up front, inserted in the breech with the fuse/charge facing aft. Then close the look-alike-breech-gun, and all takes places inside the cartridge that in fact would work well and safe without a gun at all. The gun would then be a dual purpose point-the-damn-thing-somewhere-else-please aiming apparatus. I.e. a ... gun.

Ponder. Ponder...

[ScottCollins]

Couldn't you just use something like this for a turret? youtu.be/3yc3fAC5vOI

[2nd Bat]

Wow! that's fabulous. reminds me of Big Eds productions but that one is actually even cooler. add some Talc power in with each load and the coolness factor goes up even higher!

[ScottCollins]

The same guy Also made one with recoil and shell ejection! youtu.be/odbIbTxocjM