Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 2, 2015 22:29:00 GMT -5
Instead of continuing a conversation about helmet covers on a thread about the splinter pattern itself, I've created this thread for the creating of and discussion of Homemade helmet covers and modifications for the cheapo, sub-$10, plastic "Stahlhelms." Note: Like the title suggests, this is just for loaner kits and for those who need to do many loaner kits. Not museum grade replicas or blank fire. The base helms are these dinky things here: They usually go for under ten bucks, but between them and shipping, the cheapest I found was through Amazon, here: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009BRN51E They are lightweight, and bend easily, but look horrendous by itself. I've tried a lot of things short of heat shaping them to an actual repro, but they fall short without using anything on top of them and cover up the infidelities. Pros: They are super cheap, they bend and not likely to shatter because of it. Cons: The shape barely resembles the Stahlhelm, the mold cutoff leaves a lot of rough edges (which aren't rolled), and because they bent, paint cracks off them real easily. What better way to do so, then through making helmet covers? Through Spoonflower.com, one can custom print Splinter pattern, and from there do homemade helmet covers. From the other Splinter Dilemma thread, we discussed that for Heer, freshly issued helmet covers weren't the norm and that the field made covers from extra zelts and even captured enemy camo were the norm. Being that they were field made, the sewing patterns were definitely simplified, and had much less pieces than the covers from the factories. Like this guy here: To me, that looks just like the pattern used for modern PAGST/MICH/Kevlar helmet covers. With the one large piece going down the middle from front to rear, and two circular-like shapes on the sides. So, I pulled out one of my Kevlar covers left over from the Marines and placed it onto a cheapo helm. It fit damn near like a glove! The side pieces are bigger than the what the Soldaten is wearing in the picture, and the front of the cover doesn't conform to the front end shape of the helm, but I'm sure thats fine giving that most field made ones weren't like that either, and the sewing patterns changed from unit to unit. Drastically, too. This is another simplified, field made helmet cover. So, there is no set in stone way of making "field made helmet covers." The Kevlar cover on a cheapo helm, compared to a factory repro cover, also on a cheapo helm, via front ends and sides. Looks pretty good for what its worth. Tomorrow, I'm going to get to making a sewing pattern based off the Kevlar cover. I think this is going to be the simplest and quickest method. After making a few covers, I'll be doing mods to the inside of the helms themselves. Cost wise. I can say with confidence that each full, completed helmet will run for about $15 bucks, with all the extra material counted. I will be able to get a more precise number, once I see how many helmet covers I can make from a single yard. Which, one yard runs for $17 for me. If it takes half a yard, then it will be a little over $15. Which, it will be cheaper than that, since I know I will at least have good sized scrap fabric that I can frankenstein together. Every last bit of the material would count, because ever last piece of the material had to have counted for the Germans. So, over $50 for a good repro stahlhelm, or $15 for a decent looking mock up? For a single, personal impression, sure the proper repro wins any day of the week. I own a proper repro from Hessen for my personal impression, too! This here is not meant to replace that. However, when you want to be able to equip numerous Soldaten with head gear that can fit numerous head sizes and won't fly off because the sizing of field caps are either too precise or a total crap shoot, or when you want you Soldaten to have the mid war look...Guess which one you are going to do unless you have a grade A hollywood budget?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 3, 2015 12:51:36 GMT -5
The other aspect of building a quantity of loaner gear is it results in a sense of uniformity amongst a significant number of your participants. For Heer as I understand it camo covers and smocks were relatively uncommon however entire units might at some point have acquired them and even some time later their presence within that unit would remain prevalent. I like seeing units on our battlefields who look like they belong with each other.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 4, 2015 23:32:58 GMT -5
Alright, so, I got one finished and I have a good method down! For whats its worth, the whole idea is pretty good. This is my first, complete helmet. I made it so that it wouldn't be tight to the helmet from the start, to try and not show off the wrong shape of the helm. This is it while compared to a proper repro Stahlhelm with a repro cover on it. The curving from the ear cover area, and up to the front of the helm, can still be seen and still sheisty looking, but I think it looks alright when not compared to a Stahlhelm. I think I did good with covering up and obscuring the other bad shapes. I realized too late on the first on, that ideally, the rain drops on the splinter are supposed to be vertical and not horizontal. I'm trying to achieve that with my future ones, but in all honesty, since I'm trying to play off on the "field made from zelts" thing, I'm sure there have been covers with rain drops going in any direction. Time for really good news! With one yard of this, I was able to cut out everything I need for 3 2/3 helmet covers! Thirds come from that I need only three pieces of fabric cut out to make one. However, I still might be able to get that fourth one going, by frankenstein-ing all my big scraps together! But possibly, with arranging the patterns better on the fabric, I might be able to get a full 4 helmet covers, or at least do less frankenstein-ing! One yard is $17 bucks, which makes nearly 4 covers! Meaning, each of these helmet covers are costing me about $4.25 each! The amount of labor and time it will take me to make one up is very low. The easiest thing I've made for loaner kits.
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Post by schmitz on Nov 5, 2015 2:19:20 GMT -5
it looks good, if you're going for field made then it probably doesn't matter which way the rain drops are going. It may be a good idea to file down the front brim on the plastic helmet because it's sticking out too far.
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Post by ssgjoe on Nov 5, 2015 12:42:38 GMT -5
The makers of the plastic helmet are probably trying to replicate the M16/M18 stahlhelms more than M35/M40 stahlhelms.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 5, 2015 13:29:18 GMT -5
You know, I think you are right. Just looked at one on Hessen, and it has that long "bill" like the plastic helms do. The plastic helms also has these bumps on the lower/ear portion of the helm, one on each side.
I'll try to take a picture of it when I get home. It's hard to make out with the listing images, but makes me think they might have just pressed the mold right over a M16 helm.
This is indeed interesting...
Kind of makes sense, since that they also got the pickelhaub helmets in plastic, too. Because apparently Imperial German costumes are alright for the kiddies, but definitely not WWII Germans, no no....
Schmitz, too late on this one here, but I'll plan to fix that for my other ones. Thanks for the tip.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 5, 2015 13:41:27 GMT -5
I cut the overly extended lip off of mine to tone down the exaggerated length. I think helmets in their raw form look more like the WW1 steel helmets than the WW2. The covers allow them to be usable at my events. In the past I tried paint, chicken wire, netting and rubber straps with lots of foliage. This is by far the best solution. Good news that it sounds like you could for sure get seven out of two yards.
As you are replicating field expedient production any errors, mishaps or lack of uniformity would actually be a nice detail. I think they look great! My factory ones look way to perfect and professional in my book and it seemed too extreme to spend $12.00 on an $8.00 helmet!
Thanks Drac for sharing. I have also adorned a few of mine in burlap which was also done and also hides the improper shape of these turdy helmets. I also glue simple foam strips inside them so they sit better on people's heads and don't flop around which I have noticed with these.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 5, 2015 15:33:06 GMT -5
You're welcome and thanks!
To be fair, I don't thinking spending $12 to make a $8 helmet look much better than what it is too extreme, because the end result is still pretty cheap. Instead of thinking of spending more money on one item than the base item, think of that you are spending money on the whole thing. $20 and some simple strap and foam padding work from materials laying around the house is $50 less than a new repro Stahlhelm.
Which, even if I'm showing off my skills here and saying "oh hey, look at how cheap I can get these," there are probably guys out there who can't afford a good repro and who don't have the sewing skills I do. So, the store bought cheap stahlhelm and chinese helmet cover are good for those, at least in my eyes. I do kind of believe that decent loaner grade stuff can equal to "starter kit" stuff, especially when on a budget (obviously improving one's personal impression as time goes by should be the goal at hand, too).
All of this is kind of a moot point for me though, since I do have this sewing methods in my skill set, but hopefully talks like this inspires other or opens new ways of thinking, or best yet, be able to bring new guys in because of the they can budget things in.
Outside of this, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense that they made these plastic helms to replicate the WWI helms. Hence why they don't look right to us. Either way, not looking right is why the idea of covering them up exists.
I should be able to get the other three of these finished, with the helmets done up with straps and padding, and onto the next small loaner kit project by end of the weekend.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 5, 2015 18:41:41 GMT -5
This echos my thinking exactly. These economy steps often play out like this: a new participant gets what they can and completes a look (often with the generous help of others). Some of their items are initially compromises but as long as they are aware of it and they take steps to mitigate it I am happy. They then enhance and improve their look as they get deeper into the hobby. Some will say "but those initial purchases that were wrong was money wasted!". Not if they become part of the loaner pool that softens the financial outlay required to introduce and attract new people in the hobby. The balancing act of course is striving to insure that the compromises don't slide so far as to be disruptive to the ambiance we in the are striving for. The answer to where that line should be drawn is different with every single player. To avoid establishing that line a lot of groups insist on stitch nazi perfection and I for one see that as hurting the growth of the hobby while others have every bit as much right to suggest the compromises squelch growth by turning off the most passionate advocates of our ultimate goal.
I see these helmets with your endeavor to " camouflage" the infidelities as very worthwhile. I am anxious to see how they look en masse as to me that is where the full effect comes in. A 20.00 solution vs a $80.00 solution (still just okay,repo helmet and cover). Is a no brained. For me times that by 12 and its big money.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 5, 2015 18:47:20 GMT -5
Incidentally it looks like a thin leather strap loosely across the bill would help the silhouette whick looks too much like the modern kevlar helmet to me. I found when I did that with my burlapped helmets it helped.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 5, 2015 20:07:33 GMT -5
My idea behind getting into it is: -You start off with whatever you get your hands on, because, you might not like the hobby. No reason to go all out on something you might just end selling. -(If you like it) Slowly replace what you have with better quality and/or correct stuff. -Keep your old stuff to use as loaner kit items or sell it off to someone as a starter kit. Things can go full circle. All the stuff from my first (really, really awful) German impression, have been cycled out of my personal kit, and most of the items now exist in my loaner kits. Actually this first helmet I did up here, was my first German helmet ever (I said my first impression was awful, haha), and now it still lives on and gets use as a loaner kit item, and when I eventually replace all my helmets with proper repros, I'll probably sell/trade it off to someone who wants to start out or needs more loaner items. (Did I say my first German impression was awful enough? haha) Thing about the leather strap is, thats usually the chin strap secured and out of the way, its not like the US M1's. Also, I'd feel that goes against the goal of obscuring the image of a bad helmet design. It may look like a more modern design, but so did that loan Soldaten with the E-tool in the first post. And now that I'm home, this is the bump I'm referring to, right over where ear would be. To the left of the center of the flash is a nice sized bump. Probably from being over the bolt/screw (if they actually pressed it over a WWI helmet, that might give them actual credit):
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Post by ssgjoe on Nov 6, 2015 9:10:04 GMT -5
WWI Helmets are acceptable for WWII.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 6, 2015 10:09:45 GMT -5
Hm... Question then, what would be more correct then: seeing a team or unit that they all have been issued WWI helms, OR were WWI helms something that was just issued in onesies and twosies, here and there, and you'd see one WWI helm in a sea of WWII ones?
If its the former, I'll just go with these as is and make less work for myself.
Also, did they replace the chinstraps on the WWI helm (the two slider, one strap design) with the WWII chinstrap (two straps, one buckle design) when used in WWII?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 6, 2015 12:39:29 GMT -5
I have seen pictures where the WW1 helmets were mixed in with later issue helmets. There seemed to be a higher percentage among Panzer Grenadiers of the GD division but that may just be coincidence and the photo selections for the reference book. In any event the existence of the M16\18 variant was fairly uncommon and these costume helmets are too hokey to pass uncovered as WW1 helmets (in my opinion.)anyway.
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Post by aldrich on Nov 6, 2015 12:47:49 GMT -5
Pre war they were issued, and so some snuck their way into the invasion of Poland, possibly France but that's a stretch. Even at that they would only have been worn by members of units that were very low priority when it came to handing out new equipment, so they would have been rare in combat units. Mostly they would have been given out to roles such as members flak batteries defending the major cities of Germany or home defense units in the German interior. For a late 1945, they would work as part of a volkssturm impression. One of these, a trench coat/greatcoat, and a volksturm armband would do the trick.
I have seen m40-style plastic helmets on ebay before that have the wwii shape.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 6, 2015 13:28:38 GMT -5
So, that wouldn't be good for my purpose then, since I want MidWar. Well, guess I'm cutting down the bills to make them more WWII-like, then.
Thanks!
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Post by ssgjoe on Nov 6, 2015 14:08:58 GMT -5
If you have a dremel that could work well
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 6, 2015 14:31:19 GMT -5
Literally, my sewing scissors cuts through these, haha.
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Post by ssgjoe on Nov 6, 2015 17:39:07 GMT -5
Wow..these are flimsier than I thought LOL Have you tried shooting one with an airsoft gun? Sounds like they'd break
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 6, 2015 19:17:22 GMT -5
I too have cut them with heavy sheers and inspite of their ability to be cut, they reppel BBs just fine. Years and years ago. (Mid 60s). I bought a batch of plastic German helmets that were sized and shaped much better than these. They were pretty thick plastic but they cracked when hit by BBs. (Keep in mind these were .177 cal steel BBs). I remember literally coating all of them in gaffers tape and then painting them. A ton of work but they came out looking and working quite well. I wish I still had them or there was once again a source for them.
In those days of back woods BB gun wars headgear was the primary differentiator for teams. Steel BBs definitely eliminated the issue of not knowing if you got hit or not!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 6, 2015 20:36:22 GMT -5
Yeah, surprisingly they hold up to BB's.
I was able to get a tad amount of work done today, but its been over 70 degrees all day and my apartment cut off the AC in october for whatever reason, draining a lot of motivation to work (being on the third floor sucks). Only thing I got to report was that I was able to frankenstein the piece needed to make the last helmet cover, but I had to use the swatch I got awhile ago.
So, Its safe to say that one yard can produce 3 2/3 covers, and two yards can produce 7, with maybe significant scraps to frankenstein another 1-2 pieces.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 6, 2015 21:29:56 GMT -5
Actually, Aldrich, that info on Volkssturm gives me ideas! I just gotta find a way to make paint stick to these helmets. Its fall/winter season at the local thrift stores, so plenty of wool long coats out there, I know I can make up some Volkssturm breadbags (like a standard breadbag, but no belt loops and a shoulder strap affixed to the bag), and hell, I might even be able to put the armband design on Spoonflower and be able to make a few of them like that. Upon a quick look, seems like Wikipedia has an image to use, that I can place right into a printed pattern for Spoonflower: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Volkssturm_armband.svgNo trying to recreate an image over a picture of one with the draw tools and such. This whole thing seems extreme simple! EDIT: Quick update, when things cooled down last night, I manage to get three more covers finished. Assembly takes under 1 hour for each one. Today I'll work on doing the things for helms themselves: chinstraps, shortening the bill, inside padding, and of course attaching the helm covers.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 7, 2015 15:30:48 GMT -5
Got a lot of work done today! I put on The Sand Pebbles, and got to it. Used up everything I got on hand. First, I shortened the brims on plastic helms, using a proper repro as a guide: Next, I got to sewing up chin straps, attaching them, added padding and drilled out air holes. Everything I could do to the base helmet: Sorry, the flash made it grey looking. Other side: Note, the only thing I haven't done is sew on buckles. Only because I need to order them. I didn't have any on hand. Also, the air holes, I added them because they are nice to have, and I only put them estimated areas. Incorrect placement of them is getting covered up by the covers anyway. Inside of helm: I hot glued foam padding on the inside. I know the chin straps go elsewhere, but it simpler to do this way. However, since I made the straps attach via Chicago Screws, one can reverse the side of where the buckle goes. A feature thats on legit Stahlhelms. This would also allow me to replace and fix the straps. The inside of helm after hot gluing the cover in place: While making them reverse-able would be a nice feature, especially for snow games, since the Spoonflower fabric is mostly white on the wrong side, Splinter zelts weren't like that, and the idea is to make it appear as if these were made from zelts. Left and right sides of a (near) completed helm: Backside of the cover that needed to be frankensteined together with straps to complete it: And now, all my loaner helmets! : Thats 2 proper repros, and 5 plastic helms with covers. Since I was only able to make 4 covers, one plastic helm has to get the "factory made" helm cover. Just for now though, I plan on swapping that out. With this run "near finished," time to move onto doing up some canteen covers!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 7, 2015 16:28:30 GMT -5
Those look fabulous! Great job. Amazingly your interior foam job looks identical to what I did with mine. It even looks to be the same foam material that I repurposed from an Airsoft guns packing foam. Your straps no doubt are a worthwhile step but I haven't done them to mine. If I may ask. What paint did you use on your helmets?
Anxious to see your canteen covers which I also have tackled although honestly decent looking post war covers are available pretty cheap.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 7, 2015 17:19:00 GMT -5
Thanks!
There is no paint on the plastic helms, those two images where they look gray, is because of camera flash. There really a need to paint these as the whole cover thing.
Or do you mean the ones without covers? Those are proper steel repros I've gotten over time. One of them did have to be repainted, which I did with Hessen Antique's fieldgrey paint.
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Post by ssgjoe on Nov 7, 2015 23:40:33 GMT -5
That actually looks pretty good considering what your using. Kudos!
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Post by schmitz on Nov 8, 2015 3:53:01 GMT -5
Great work ! These look just like m42s with covers.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Nov 8, 2015 9:12:55 GMT -5
Thanks guys!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Nov 18, 2015 14:36:06 GMT -5
After much careful and thorough thought, I decided to trade these away. I'm proud of what I've accomplished, trying to make the best with these that I can, but I decided against keeping these and using these. Definitely appreciate the good words.
I'm not going to try to hide the fact that my efforts created a stir here, and for that I'm sorry.
As an artist, I just hope that to those that find these acceptable for either starter or loaner kits, or short film, play, or whatever, that this inspires you.
If anyone wants the paper patterns, I can make copies of them on posterboard and send them out for a small fee: $10 via paypal. The pattern pieces are bigger than the standard 8.5x11 printer paper, and does need a bit of work to make other sets, but that price mostly covers the USPS Priority Mail large envelop shipping.
Back in the planning room for me.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 18, 2015 14:56:41 GMT -5
In spite of the controversy I am thrilled to have them! Given our local approach these will support my efforts very well.
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