Browning M1919 30 Caliber Machinegun

[biged]

Gordak, Nice 1928 tripod. I love the old colt iron. If you look hard enugh you can find the water jacket & can for the .30 for another $100-$200.
I had an idea awhile back about a Colt .30 cal which is fed bb's via the jacket hose & can.

///ed///

[Tough Ombre]

Alright, i have all the plans for the 30cal that im going to build drawn up. I will start on it pretty soon though, since im still waiting on parts for my m1 garand.
-Cary

[killbucket]

Where there is a will...But I didn't want the weight or expense of the real item. Styrene is too brittle, it will break like a car model, they are made of that stuff. ABS is easy to work and takes paint well. This is what the Tamiya RC cars are made of.
ABS is available at:
www.interstateplastics.com/
a 24 x 48" sheet is just $20, and will be plenty for the gun and a few custom parts you will undoubtedly think up.

I build a 1919a4 HB Browning Replica that is constructed of ABS, PVC, and common hardware items. Finished weight is just over nine pounds, and it is strong enough to stand on! The top lid opens realistically, and it is the actual length, width, and height as the real item. We are working on a water-cooled barrel kit, and an M2 will be ready soon.

A layout kit that has all parts printed full-size, all hole/sizes marked, is available for $25. All you do is stick it to .250 thick material, drill and cut. Everything fits, no engineering required! I have cut and assembled these in as few as two evenings using just a scroll saw and drill press.
It uses a standard Ver2 gearbox with the motor rotated back, similar to Schmitty's sten. The gearbox only needs two small holes drilled for the A/R latch, and slight grinding for motor clearance. It is reversible back to stock. The motor is hiding behind the row of three holes in the second pic:

[TommyGunner]

Nice where can I get these instructions?

TommyGunner

[mikkel]

killbucket> Very nice! How much do you want to build another one?


If no, could you then take all the measurements you used fo rthis project, and post them here, please?

[CharleyNovember]

www.air-sharp.com

[Tough Ombre]

Looks Great!! i plan on starting on mine today, i spent all school day (in inschool suspension) deciphering some blueprints. Will post some pics. I jsut wish to get my damned m1 parts so i can finish that
-Cary

[mikkel]

Wow, thats not even that expensive!

But why did you chose to use the V2 gearbox, when you have all the space in the world avalible?

When will the tripod mount be ready and at what price?

[Gordak]

Very cool kit!

you dont have all the space in the world actually, the barrel is pretty low, so most gearboxes stick out.

-Gordak

[applestrudel]

were can you buy a v2 gear box or what guns use them?

[DeB]

colt and G3.

Go for a V3 it's stronger... The guns with V3 are G36 and the mp5 kurz I think, AK47

[biged]

V2 gearboxes were a very poor design. Both in standard and reinforced forms, V2 gearboxes are still the weakest gearbox shells so big springs will crack/snap the front end.
If V2 are left to a modest upgrade and used in warmer weather they will last forever.

The AGM MP40 V3 gearbox would be MUCH easier to fit. You will end up with a spare mag and a complete parts gun.

A Star M249 gearbox is another choice. It is a clear plastic lexan gearbox but they survive an M150 shooting 460fps in 20 degree weather. I have never seen one break...

A CA M249 gearbox, P90 gearbox, or the new Inokatsu gearbox will also fit.

///ed///

[Tough Ombre]

What did you use to cut the plastic? I was going to try to make my gun out of wood, but I just couldnt make anything straight. I was using a jig saw for some of it, so im sure that had something to do with it lol.
-Cary

[Cpl. Hicks]

m14rifleman said:

I was using a jig saw for some of it, so im sure that had something to do with

Yeah, I'm pretty sure using a puzzle isn't going to work. ;D
Lol jk

You might need to take it to a specialist who works in wood to do that.

[2nd Bat]

The styrene or ABS plastic sheets are going to come out looking way better then wood and will probably be much easier to work with. With epoxy glues and edge supports they'll be strong and will hold up spectacularly well even with rugged field use. It will be light but provide some weight which will be nice. The fact that this kit is set up to occomodate a version 2 gearbox with the fitting and attachment points factored in is exceptional and will save folks a lot of time and mistakes.

As soon as I free up some idle time I'm going to do this project for sure. I sure wish someone made a reasonably priced tripod that looked and functioned well.

[killbucket]

Wow. Thank you all for your input.
Over twenty guns have been produced. Details are on the site about how to get one, I don't want to mis-use this Forum. I just want more feedback like this from you informed types.
www.air-sharp.com
That sideplate drawing at 1919A4.com...how many hours have been spent fabbing up actual examples...and how many more in pursuit of the rest of the design? Two-hundred and eighty-four hours, twenty-three minutes. That's how much CAD time I have in the file, interpolating part dimensions from various pictures. With a few known dimensions, others can be determined, given enough time and experimentation.
The Version2 gearbox-why?
They are everywhere. Competition in the market has put stock and upgrade components into every small town in America, and the clone wars are making the quality better and better. Some stock gearboxes are getting pretty stout. Breakages are less often (anything can be overstressed if in determined hands...). And custom internals like bore-ups, torque-up gears, etc., are just not available from the variety of sources for any of the other gearbox designs.
A ver2 box by itself, $59.99 at:
www.airsoft128.com/xcart/catalog/UPGGBXV02_CYMA_Ver2_Complete_Gearbox_Set-p-34522.html
These guys are responsive, and throw freebies into damn near every order I get from them.
But buy a whole gun, you need the barrel parts, hopup, motor, batteries...:
www.airsoft128.com/xcart/catalog/SADPMS001_DPMS_Ver2_A15_Style_Full_Size_Electric_Rifle-p-33716.html
The 249 gearboxes are just not available for a good price. Period. I wanted to design something accessable, even if you live in Nome, Alaska. Used ver2 guns are readily available, and many are on their second or third, with parts to spare for the build-up. If I was only thinking of builders with money to spend, the P90 is a no-brainer, the M14 a close second. Sad to axe up a nice Stargate Bullpup, and I don't have time to reverse-engineer and understand that M14 box (And the M14, how can I cut up a legendary soldier like that? At least the M16 had a rough start it deserves some derision for).
The what?

ditto the can't cut it up! (THANKS, I now wake up wanting this gun.....uhhhhh...)

Big springs. Love em..but too many wrenches go overboard. Just because the biggest, baddest fits, doesn't mean you will like the results. We are up against the physical /ballistic limitations of >35g ball ammo pretty quickly. (And I have to be so careful about richochets when using the rodded guns I work on. LPEG's are cheap, short-lived fun, but pure fun. My $19 uzi is one of my favorites, it should have died long ago, with the use it gets in the yard, plinking. And I can't possibly harm the dog or wife with it. -I mean the wife or dog.) At about 150%, springs find a sweet spot. And there's the whole issue of chrono limits.
The scroll saw:

Get 11.5 tooth per inch blades, run at it's absolute lowest speed. Any faster will fuse your cuts! But there is no other way to get good results, unless you want to wrestle a widowmaker, I mean table router. Practice following lines on scrap, scroll saw blades naturally cut to the right, due to how they are produced. In short order, it becomes second nature to follow complex shapes easily. A nice bench-type sander makes trimming edges and such a lot faster.

With the layouts or drawing of whatever you want to make glued down (cover the material with cheap contac paper, the spray with super 77 or similar adhesive. Spray the back of the artwork, let stand 30 seconds, place on stock), centerpunch the hole locations and drill. Do all cutting last, to avoid having to fixture small items (this eats TIME!).
The tripod. So many places to buy proudly-made replicas, and competition for pricing, even. So what's the plan? How about a lightweight, shorter-legged version, with authentic details? I am determined to make this work using polymer materials, to keep prices reasonable. To make rigid leg tubes, I am experimenting with various fill materials, like Bondo and water putty. This will add some welcome MASS.

The low weight is the only drawback to plastics, I think. The gearbox mount on my creation has the large rectangular cutout in it, I am looking for commonly-available ballast to put here to add some weight.

A Browning with a stocker in it is a lot of fun. Most people at demos go trigger-happy with them (especially women, for some reason), and will run it to death unless I stop them. A hotrod at its limits inside would get grenaded while I watched. The fact that the hicap needs winding is sometimes the only thing giving them rest!

[Tough Ombre]

I think I am going to talk to my engineer and design teach and see if it would be possibly if i can set up program to cut out the side plates on a CNC machine, and see if he will take it to the school where it is and run it for me... that will probably be my best bet.
-Cary

[killbucket]

Yes. That is a good way to make parts, if you have the equipment available. I have the full CAD file for this worked out. A third party has obtained liscence to the design and will be producing aluminum A4 and A6 variants for the DOD for dummy training. As far as I know, none of these will ever be sold to the public. I would expect pricing to be competitive with real steel, but without the BATF and "old" factors. I have no plans to produce this in anything other than ABS. A model kit version will be about $200, you will need to provide the airsoft gun parts.
Bear in mind you need a LOT more parts than just the sideplates, and they are not identical. I had the same public-domain right sideplate drawing to start from, it's CAD coordinates were input in the first day's design time. The bulk of time was determining size of related parts, sourcing materials suitable, designing, and re-designing. I had to start over more than once. The lid assembly is more complex than it appears at first.
Planning to build one item, one time, is a lot simpler to do. Keep working on yours, and build the item YOU want. I want to see pictures! I have built some nice one-offs, a 1919A4 with minigun grips and a short cqb barrel for example.

Completely cartoony, milsim types would cough and choke at the sight of it. I got to own it for three whole days, somebody offered the right figure...
With the plan to produce rows and rows of identical replicas, things got more complicated. What hardware do I specify, and will it always be readily available? Sticking to everyday, generic, off-the-shelf hardware items allows standardization of the design. Take a set of my layouts to any hardware store in twenty years, and every item you need will be there, still available at hardware component prices. Estimated cost for all materials needed is less than $35, no scrimping and waiting required. Two or three evenings later, you would be spraying paint.

[killbucket]

Here's a copy of an early IFU, it shows the components and relative locations. The actual production design has changed from this, as seen from photos. But this should give you an idea of what parts you will need to come up with while designing:

[Tough Ombre]

Ya, i know there is more then just the side plates, but those side plates seem to be the hardest part right now. Plus those are the only drawings i have right now. I would buy your print ups.. but i just dont have 25 bucks right now I think i am just going to have to put this project off till i have a better job. Once i finish my M1 i am done spending for a while. I have spent over 500 bucks in the past 6 months... and i still dont have a job lol
-Cary

[Tough Ombre]

mhmm... looks fun lol
-Cary

[mikkel]

killbucket> Thank you for your replies!

Is there any chance you would do a 'deluxe' version with some other gearbox with other placement of the feeding tube/battery wire?

Whwn will you have the Trip avalible? And what will the price be?

[biged]

Killbucket,
Not starting a flame, just trying to offer some simpler gearbox options for those scratch building a .30.

You have done outstanding work on your .30. I find it incredible how you got the V2 box in the body. The .30 plastic body is amazing I can only do that kind of work with steel. The big fad today seems to be high-ROF & power and alot of DM guns (450 fps). So I see ALOT of cracked V2 boxes each week.

The Star 249 Gearboxes can be purchased at WGC.

The Inokatsu M60E3 uses a V3 gearbox. The new style "inline" gearbox is featured in M60VN and the BAR. Rite now dealers can contact Inokatsu and aquire just a gearbox. (Dealer meaning you have to purchase 5 guns or more at a time.) It won't be long before the gearboxes are all over the place.
Having a Hong Kong runner in Kowloon you can get just about anything in the "airsoft district".

Ripping up a gun for a gearbox is never a good thing - especialy a new one. However the rest of gun the parts are worth more than the whole gun. M4/M16, AUG, P90, G36, Sig551/552 and M14 come to mind. The ability to "sit-on" a parted out gun is the only risk.

The MP40's are great choice for a gearbox. The price is rite, and a WW2 airsofter will more than likely already have one. So a parts body would be welcome, two different styles of fake-bake come to mind.

///ed///

[mikkel]

You really have a very solid design going. And from my viewpoint, the hardest parts are already worked out. I got a few suggestions that would make the gun just about perfect;


I've been looking at the images on the website a lot now. It seems that the reason to why there have to be an extension below the gun itself. Is because of the height of the V2 box. The pistol grip part is still retained. It'sthe motor that have been reposistioned, and it's this reposistioning of the gearbox that have caused the requirement of the below-gun extension.

I belive that the MP40 gearbox would be a snug fit fo rthis gun, and would not require the internal mount, to extend below the actual gun.
It would make the gun a lot more durable, and remove the inaccurate part that extends below the actual gun.
Plus there could be installed a lower plate, that would prevent dirt and other nasty stuff, from entering the gun.

The MP40 is 80US$ in Hong Kong, after gutting it, you would have a spare MP40 shell for replacement parts, or you could even resell the shell as a dummy.

As for the feeding mechanism that goes out the bottom of the gun, maybe you should copy the diesgn schmitty used for his M1919 replica?
Isn't it possible to design an internal resevior with a hipcap mech inside, to allow all the parts to be retained inside the actual gun. It seems that the body itself holds more than enough space for these mechanisms, it's just a question of posistioning it all correctly?


If this gearbox version/posistioning and feeding method, could be worked out, i would be more than happy to purchase two units. And also willing to pay the higher price involved with the better design.

[biged]

2nd Bat,

The cheapest M2 tripod I have come across is a weld togather kit from iron creations.
shop.ironcreationsllc.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=27&categoryId=52

The cheapest route would be to order the head and fab up your own legs.
shop.ironcreationsllc.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=19&categoryId=52

I made my M2 tripod from the plans on the liberator crew website. (New website)
browningmgs.com/M2BuildSite.htm

Since the M2 was TINY when I mounted my .50 on it, I've been working on a monster M3 tripod which is 90% complete.

(I also started and completed another fantastic project I will post the last week of April.)

///ed///

[killbucket]

Absolutely love all the good ideas put forth, thank you all for your input!
Great gearbox ideas! I will design mounts for the MP40 parts. I will get one on order ASAP. I'm still thinking the m249 stuff is out. At $300 for the box, then you still need gears, etc., This is what makes gutting a whole gun a good idea, all the parts you might need are right there.
The M16/Ver2 setup is the "smallblock chevy" of our sport. People breaking the gearboxes are finding their billet replacements readily, so I feel that is a non-issue.
The centerline of the Browning Barrel puts the motor partially below the bottom of the casing, even using a M249 box, anyway. Flipping the gearbox over might work. bottom line, I'm not cannibalizing any ~1k guns anytime soon for parts. I bet I'm not alone.
I surmise the MP40 choice is good for ww2 airsofters, as many will already have spare MP40 parts, am I wrong? If somebody REALLY wants to put in a 249 box, they can lay it on top of my drawings and remark hole locations, I suppose.

The ammo feed spring is 5/16" dia, end loops cut off. Ends from a mag loader tube shrink-wrapped into place with a couple of drops of superglue. This will bend into very tight radii and still feed smoothly. Thanks to Austin and Logan at Norca Army/Navy for this tip.
A standard ammo tin will go on one side with a motorized thermold hicap I am working on. It has a window cut in the side, and will mount at an angle inside the ammo tin with a bb hopper above that. I may need to rig up a stirrer or something to make things work.
The batteries for the gun will hide inside a "link chute" on the other side of the gun. This is to avoid having the gun list to one side from weight bias. The internal space is 1.5 x 3.75 x 14.25". Not a lot to work with for batteries and ammo. Real guns need the external stuff to function, so may as well hide the guts there. My initial aim was for each builder to come up with their own ancillaries, thinking most would enjoy the engineering of such things. It's clear now that I will have to design something "turn-key" in time for ammo/power setup.
The tripod is coming along. Pricing will depend on what final design is acceptable to the intended use. I'm a little leery of offering something that will end up with a real Browning sitting on it, they weigh over 30 pounds set up. I just want something suitable for the replicas we build. If you have a "real steel" LMG, you really need a steel tripod.

[mikkel]

I just measured my MP40 gearbox. It slightly less than 7cm high.
From what i can see on the images on your website, and comparing the V2 and MP40 gearboxses, there should be no part of the MP40 gearbox extending below the Browning reciver. On this gearbox all the gears are in line, and the motor is posistioned in line with the gears, making the whole design very compact. The only drawback is that the box is a bit longer than other boxes, but there ar eplenty of space in the browning shell for that
Another really nice fearure of the MP40 gearbox, is that the trigger mechanism is seated on the side of the gearbox, and the actual trigger is placed behind the gearbox, connected with a metal rod. It should be very little work to extend this metal rod, and attach it to the Browning trigger.

My personal suggestion would be to mount the gearbox to the rear of the Browning reciver. And then build an internal ammunition container between the gearbox and the forward reciver wall. Then basicly just copy the design schmitty did for his internal reservior and feeding mech in his M1919A6? (If he agree that it's no problem for you to use that design).
If i'm not mistaken, the MAG brand M249 series 100 round magazines, use a hicap magazine placed horizontally, and the feeding mech is then angled so that the bbs are fed properly. Maybe you can simply copy this design? (some additional information about the magazine can be found here: www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/reviewpost/showproduct.php/product/346/cat/20)
From what i can see, there would be some space between the top of the gearbox and the top of the gun reciver, allowing a battery to be instelled there? (The top of the MP40 gearbox is flat, so there will be more space then what the V2 suggests)

This would enable the complete gun to have a fully enclosed and self-supporting system, that will not require any external components for the gun to function.


I'm really looking forward to see your project take form. And i already stand ready to purchase one of the first completed units with tripod

What is the estimated time, until the various stages of the gun is complete?

If you could design the internal gearbox frame for the MP40, posistioned to the rear of the reciever, I would gladly purchase one and help design the internal feeding system (have made a few custom magazine projects in the past).

[killbucket]

I am ordering an MP40 tonite. You will see this happen.
When you revise things, sometimes there will be scrap-pile items that get second lives.
This is how I clean my patio and water my flower gardens:



I'm hoping to have a gun/tripod ready to photograph by next Friday.

[biged]

The HopUp needs to be adjusted on your hose...

The Star M249 gearboxes are only $25 - $35. You'll have to supply your own internals V2/V3 so add another $60. They are the same height as the MP40 and 2 inches longer than a V2 box.
There are 2 mounting holes on the left side of the gearbox so attatching it is a breeze. Uses a SPDT snap switch as a trigger. So high voltage batteries (12v+ for the upgrade psychos) can be used without converting the gun a MOSFET trigger. Has a decocking lever so tension can be removed from the spring. And springs can be changed without opening up the gearbox in under 1 minute from the back.

The Star 249 GB is just alternative choice with alot of extra features.

However Chinese MP40 is without a doubt the best route for the buck.

The airsoft shop I work for has parted out alot of $1,000 guns.
The owner also buys alot of used guns. PM me if you are looking for parts or want to sell something. I can give you his website address or phone number. He'll be interested in your .30 once it's finished. WW2 airsoft has a foothold in New England.

///ed///

[DeB]

As an owner of a G3 converted (used) like an MG in my team I know really well that a V2 gearbox with a 320fps spring in it will last about 6 months or 7 after long MG style bursts!

Maybe better with the MP40 gearbox!

Good work on air-sharp!