2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 17, 2008 13:18:20 GMT -5
I am in the final stages of creating my fully revised second version of my AEG Garand. This version will incorporate all the incremental enhancements of the initial version along with major steps that will step up the detailed authenticity of the newest version.
The primary changes are the use of the new, flush mounted 15 round clip and the properly shaped, custom, all wood Garand lower stock. On the original version I substantially modified an M14 lower stock and combined that with Garand Handguards and the gas reservoir assembly to create a pseudo M1 Garand. It is close but not as authentic as I had always wanted it to be.
I will still offer it and will be able to do so at an even lower price point. ($495.00, plus shipping) with three 15 round clips. The version 2 model will also come with three clips but will include the all wood lower stock and matching handguards. Both versions will be available in Dark Walnut or medium wood finish.
The price of the version two (all wood) M1 Garand will be $679.00 plus shipping. The all wood, lower stock will be made available to those customers who bought an earlier version Hooah Airsoft Garand. This pricing reflects a 60.00 reduction in the base price and an increase of 120.00 for the improved version.
Options will include WW2 style oiled and browned leather sling at $28.00 and a combat pack of six spare 15 round clips in a bandoleer at $72.00
The rifle will shoot at 356 FPS with .20 gram right out of the box and will be built on all new components. Shipping will commence in late April.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Mar 17, 2008 14:16:20 GMT -5
So when can we expect a pic of one of these finished beuties?
TommyGunner
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 17, 2008 15:02:04 GMT -5
I have taken some pictures of my original prototypes but until I have the fully finalized version I'm going to hold off posting anything. (The stock and guns are finished but I'm still finalizing the clips in their adapted stage.) I'll have extensive photos up in about a week.
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Mar 17, 2008 16:31:48 GMT -5
Great, we are all looking forward to seeing them.
TommyGunner
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YankeeDiv26
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Mar 17, 2008 16:56:50 GMT -5
Ahh finally the cat's officially out of the bag. Cant wait to see the pictures. How much will an upgrade cost for the lower wood stock?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 19, 2008 11:42:03 GMT -5
Depends entirely on what my volume cost of purchase is going to end up and the pace I can maintain. I'm guessing $230 to 250.00 for the solid black Walnut lower stocks. (As a seperate option) I'm targeting a price of $495.00 for the existing version of the gun (including three 12 round clips) and $649.00 for the deluxe all wood version with the 100% correct shaped lower stock.
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TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
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1st Marine Division, 1942
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Post by TommyGunner on Mar 25, 2008 14:43:27 GMT -5
Wow that Bono made stock looks really good. Infact it looks as if it would be something current M1 Garand owners woudl be able to do as well.
TommyGunner
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2008 16:54:49 GMT -5
I'm expecting to get back my finalized lower stock this week and will assemble it for pictures before sending it out for mass replication. I expect to order them in batches of 10 and have six pre-sales now. I should be able to ship these by month end if not before. I appreciate everyones patience. This has taken way longer than it should have. If shipped by months end I'll still be ahead of projections.
The official introduction and all the press releases will be at the Jump to Destiny game in May.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 4, 2008 17:38:47 GMT -5
I finally got back a finished lower stock that looked right and fit properly. I had six sold orders that I have holding off delivering for months now. I went ahead and make a few tiny tweaks from my finally approved prototype and ordered eight stocks. I completed the first five and got them assembled and shipped out. I really appreciate everyones patience and understanding. Things have simply taken way way longer than I had anticipated and each newly revised base stock had problems. I am delighted with the end result however. I have ordered another batch of wood and Garand parts for another ten and will assemble these next two for delivery. I will do a press release and hopefully sell more. Though still not absolutely perfect (some slight compromises have to be done to allow the components to fit and function properly they are very very good and I am most pleased. Finished guns are $695.00 plus shipping. They are all wood and real steel and come with three of the newer style flush mounted clips, a base plate (when not skirmishing) and a battery and charger. They fire at 356 to 362 FPS right out of the box and feature a 6.05 extremely long, tightbore barrel. They are very impressive to shoot and feel awesome.
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Post by 101steasykid on Jun 4, 2008 19:01:12 GMT -5
Question: How much Resin Paste is used on the New M1 AEG Garands? I am interested in maybe purchasing one in the future, but I wasn't too happy with my M1903 Springfield with a Full Hand Sculpted Resin Paste Receiver, which wasn't even sculpted neatly. It was full of smudges and finger prints, and tended to crack when the moisture and humidity changed (which in Pennsylvania occurs quite often).
I want to know if I am getting my moneys worth.
-Michael
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 4, 2008 21:47:45 GMT -5
On these revised versions the only resin paste that is apparent at all is used as small fill in front of the rear peep site and to replace the M14 bolt release with a Garand style bolt release (1/4 inch tab)
With the Springfields I had to create a whole artificial reciever group which as you know was far from ideal.
On my original version M1 Garand (Which I still make) I use resin paste to fill the side stock bolts and butt plate flap channels and then sand and stain over. Close examination and wear over time exposes those patches. As with the current version I also filled the slanted area just in front of the peep sight so as to eliminate the M14 stripper clip slot and re-do the M14 bolt release with a more Garand like style.
With the all wood custom, made lower stock these patches and modifications to the lower stock are not required.
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Post by p51 on Jun 4, 2008 22:16:07 GMT -5
I was just looking at this photo: Is the bottom of the magazine the rear face of a real M-1 clip? Is there any way to make the magazines look more like the bottom side of the floor plate (trigger housing assembly) of a real M-1? How about installing locking bar sights to them, will real WW2 rear sights drop into the receiver? Just curious...
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 4, 2008 22:45:16 GMT -5
Couple of the battlesim regulars have these. Perhaps at the next game you go to weather it be modern or not you could get them to bring one and you could look it over in person. In person always works better than pictures.
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Post by p51 on Jun 4, 2008 23:11:15 GMT -5
Couple of the battlesim regulars have these. Perhaps at the next game you go to weather it be modern or not you could get them to bring one and you could look it over in person. In person always works better than pictures. Never said they didn't look good, I'm nitpicky at heck on real weapons (I have one of every US weapon from WW2 except working MGs, artillery or a flamethrower and I'm working on all of those that are legal), I would just want a airsoft M-1 rifle to look as good as my real M-1 does as I have locking bar sights on it and was just asking if the clips could look more like the floorplate of a M-1 and have locking bar sights, that's all, as I'm looking into maybe getting one of these for myself eventually...
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 4, 2008 23:34:14 GMT -5
That was not what I said dude. I was saying you could take a look at one in person. This way you could get a better idea of what you would need to do to make it look like you want.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 5, 2008 0:06:48 GMT -5
P51. It's a reasonable question that I don't know the answer to.
One cautionary note to anyone not familiar with the almost three year saga of this projects development. I'm afraid people are going to get easily confused with my initial offering and my second version. The initial version had several iterations and refinements from the first gun to the 148th. All of the initial versions had a narrower lower stock (modified M14 stock) and barely allowed enough room for even the newer flush mounted clip. Indeed on some of them I was dinking around and used a cut down enblock clip to add some weight and fill the sidewalls which as noted would place the enblock end on the bottom side of the clip not rear portion. It is also exposed on the bottom which of course on a real Garand it would not be.
On the current version the stock is the proper thickness and shape for a Garand (Not absolutely precise as that would not accomodate the gear box but very, very close) Because it has additional depth I have room for and have created a base plate cap that covers the mag well and the clip and looks correct from the bottom (Albeit slighty too long) This cap is removed during skirmish play so you can easily slip fresh 15 round clips into and out of the gun but provides the right visual look when on display or around camp.
Most of my Garands (By far) are the version ones. I sold 148 of them. I have thus far produced 5 of the second version and it will be a while before they are even close to as prevalent.
The Marushin gas Garand is still by far the most authentic looking and precise airsoft replica around and is hard to distinguish from an actual Garand by all but the most ardent gun officianatos. (P51 falls in the category) The Marushin gas clip is eight rounds and it pops out when empty. The gas blow back function is quite impressive. For an exacting and demanding WW2 gun freak it is the logical choice.
Unfortunately it doesn't work consistently or predictably enough for skirmishing which is my primary interest and hence I have created my versions which present compromises not everyone will find acceptable but they do work and for my customers provide a viable alternative. The second version just now introduced reduces dramatically the infidelities of my initial offering but is still not perfect by any means.
I have no idea if the actual Garand rear site would work and am still confused as why that would be important in an airsoft replica. The sites on my replica appear to my untrained eye and experience to work identically. They have fully adjustable rear peep sights that elevate and detract and are adjustable for windage. My front gas resevoir and sights are actual Garand parts. The dimensions on the rear site appear identical to me when compared side by side with an actual Garand. My receiver group is the same general shape but 1/4th of an inch shorter.
Some customers have requested that I eliminate the selector switch and cut off the M14 mag well release. I am happy to do that on a order by order basis. So far about half of the customers have requested it. I prefer on my own guns to leave them on for the functional advantages they provide.
Some customers have requested I use rare iterations of the Garand parts that literally sell for more then the costs of my entire gun production and there is no way I intend to use any component that would be best served in the restoration of a quality complete and functional M1 Garand.
If someone wants a pre-war this and that or first run Garand component you'll have to do it to my rifle later. I am just a simple airsoft custom gun maker trying to fill a niche who admits my goal is to build a facsimile of a Garand that 999 out of 100 people thinks looks and feels just like a Garand. I have neither the interest or ability to satisfy that other guy.
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Post by p51 on Jun 6, 2008 20:27:04 GMT -5
I have no idea if the actual Garand rear site would work and am still confused as why that would be important in an air soft replica. To answer that question, I guess details are relevant in regard to the person asking about them. You've mentioned elsewhere about a M1928 Tommy Gun kit being not to your standards, but others might question why those points should be important to anyone else in their view. The same for your rifles in general, some might (and maybe already have) question why you should care at all about making an M-1 when to some people, an M-14 is "just as good." A locking bar sight isn't exactly what I'd consider some kind of early modification, as all WW2 M-1 rifles came with them. I hope you don't think I was asking for everything to be exact down to the last micron or nitpicking your fine work. I know all too well the saga of you getting these into production and I agree that this is the best M-1 rifle out there you can really use in a skirmish. No question about that. If I ever decide to get an air soft M-1, I'd never consider going to anyone else. I really wasn't even asking you to put locking bar sights on them, just wondering if you knew if a set would drop in there or if a customer had already tried it. Considering the work you put into these, I think it wasn't an out of line question to ask as maybe you'd looked into it at some point as you've been improving your product steadily since you started making these and as you've pointed out, you've had some pretty anal requests on details already from others. I certainly didn't mean to insult/annoy you or anything if you took it that way. I am curious about the M-14 magazine release lever, you mentioned people asking to have it removed, but how can you release the magazine without that lever on it? Do you countersink the lever to be able to release it or something? I'm also guessing that most folks get them with the select auto function? I sure could understand if they would more often prefer it that way, as they can just slam a regular M-14 large magazine into it for non-WW2 games...
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 6, 2008 21:02:26 GMT -5
P51 in this case I certainly didn't take it as a dig and believe me when you put work out there I'm prepared and open to them. I sincerely meant the question. Why would someone want to interchange the sites with an actual site for a BB gun that shoots 200 feet accurately if the wind is with you? I will have to share my ignorance on this one, I truly don't know what specifically you're asking? In looking at the two sights side-by-side. The rear site though not made of the same quality of materials appears identical and seems to function identically to the actual Garand rear site. (Windage and elevation knob, clicks as it moves) I may however be missing something and I truly wanted to be enlightened. If there some uber trick highly desireable actual sight that people would want to mount I really should know about it.
As for the selctor switch, some players groups require an upgraded rifle to not have the ability to be fired fully auto while others prefer the visual authenticty of having the selector switch removed. Like you, I see greater advantages to leaving it and in it's stock form it doesn't exceed most fields regualr AEG rules. (They shoot stock at 356 to 362 FPS) That's of course harder than a stock AEG which typically fires at 290 FPS but still not sniper velocities. Obviously some customer upgrade these to velocities much higher. Personally I fail to see the point but that's another discussion.
When "removed" the mag release is cut down to where it is less apparent but is still marginally present. A guy with good fingernails can push it forward and facilitate the mag release adequately to remove the clip. In games I guess I like the additional edge of a quicker more seamless change of clips, especially with a 15 round clip that functionally really only provides 12 ready rounds.
Do you have a picture of the site in the event it's somehow different than what I'm looking at on both my Garand and the replica? What potential key differences should I be considering?
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Jun 7, 2008 14:22:45 GMT -5
If he is talking about the rear sight locking bar, it's visible on this picture of two WWII issue Garands - look on the rear sight adjustment knob: As opposed to a M14 airsoft replica, which doesn't have this fix (since it isn't needed on an M14):
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 7, 2008 15:05:18 GMT -5
That's where it's great to have additional sets of eyes and folks obviously more knowledgeable about Garands than I am. My actual M1 Garand, Serial number 4707449 (H&R Arms) does not have the little tab shown on the site of the windage knob and is visually identical to the M14 replicas. I have quite literally never noticed the tabbed lock. Was that an additional items or common to all? The reason I ask is it's not on the rifle I used as a comparison base rifle.
The result is I had no idea what P51 was talking about. Thanks P51 for calling my attention to it and Seph for the clarity. In my mind there are far greater infidelities than that but that's where everyone has their own level of obsession for detail. Honestly it's what makes the hobby fun and interesting. I've learned a great deal about Garands through the process of this project and no doubt have far more to learn.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jun 7, 2008 17:13:35 GMT -5
People on the WWII Reenactors Forum always say to people get a lock bar sight and I never know what there talking about, untill now. Thanks for pointing that out p51 and Seff.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 7, 2008 18:16:13 GMT -5
I'll admit my ignorance. I had never heard the term myself nor had I ever noticed it and the Garand was my initial training issued rifle when I was in the Army. (1st year of ROTC actually)
It's a nice visual detail that seems would be easy to produce. Functionally uhmmmmmm.....it's an airsoft rifle. I'll look into whether an original could be fitted and what the costs might be.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jun 7, 2008 21:45:05 GMT -5
Unfortunately I am very sure original Lock Bar sights are expensive. I think the M14 sights could be modified to look like the lock bar version though.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 7, 2008 23:53:18 GMT -5
They may or may not be. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to what items bring incredible money and which are fairly affordable. I've seen select styles of the tiny hand guard clips bring over $100.00 on ebay. An item that without the crease in the middle usually brings a couple bucks.
The small locking lug bolt from the gas reservoir seems outrageous at $10.00 until you see what the early and pre-war single slots bring! I believe there are people who have forgotten more details and specifics about Garands than I will ever know. The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know.
P51 and Seff probably have a decent idea what the locking sights go for. It's not a detail that means a thing to me but obviously is importanat to some folks, hence worthwhile for me to learn more about.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Jun 8, 2008 4:27:16 GMT -5
Well, I haven't been able to find a separate one at Sarco Inc., so I used Google and found this - if all else fails, 2nd Bat could buy it and see if it will fit a M14 sight. I honestly don't see why it's so important, but it seems that these were very common on WWII Garands. I have a hard time seeing who it will convince when it's 2 cm's from the M14 fire selector, though :lol: ANything for that scrap of authenticity, I guess. Ebay link: cgi.ebay.com/M1-Garand-Rear-Sight-Locking-Bar_W0QQitemZ140239370975QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806071213r32441
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 8, 2008 11:50:06 GMT -5
I suspect it would screw right on frankly. To Seffs point I suspect the folks who remove the selector switch and shave down the mag release for cosmetic reasons would want to add it. I'll pick one up and try it for the purposes of informing people that it could be done (Or not). I suspect there are a dozen other tiny details that aren't precise but...Oh well.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jun 8, 2008 12:39:30 GMT -5
well I am not a fan of the selector switch it just makes it look totally un garandish, but the Lock bar sight is a different matter its a lot smaller and doesn't stick out as much as the selector switch.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 9, 2008 13:39:46 GMT -5
I have removed the selector switch from approximately eight of the 150 plus I have built. It's entirely up to the customer if they want it removed. There is no doubt it looks more Garand like. I think many customers like being able to use their rifle in regualr skirmishes and like the option of firing on fully auto in those events and using standard or hi cap mags instead of the small clips which of course are ideal for WW2 events.
At Jump to Destiny it was so cool having such pronounced ammo and magazine restrictions so the battles really were far more realistic in terms of the amount of ammo being spent and the significance of the MGs and sub machine guns. When faced with regular AEGs and everyone using hi caps and high rates of fire at a conventional game it's nice however to feel competitive.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 13, 2008 11:19:30 GMT -5
I have recently sold four M1 Garands into France. Two fellows knew one another and the others did not know each other. Three bought the version ones and one bought the version two. It's going to be interesting to see the mix of orders between the two. I have pending additional inquiries from the UK (as usual) and Poland.
I think I've bought out all the shortgun mags for conversions that are available anywhere as everyone now seems to be out of stock. The result is I can't sell the "combat packs" of spare clips right now. Each rifle comes with 3 clips and I need to keep enough on hand to accomodate that requirement. At present I have modified almost four hundred of the clips! They're easy to do but tiresome. I think I've only messed up a couple out of the four hundred so they aren't precision work by any stretch.
I had planned to do some up for G&Gs but since I'm virtually out I'll have to do that another time. I have a G&G based Garand conversion that I like very much but as yet haven't come up satisfactory flush mounted clips. (It has a strange z shaped hump inside the mag well)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 1, 2008 11:01:26 GMT -5
More stocks and handguards due in any day so I can get caught up. I have added further subtle tweaks to the stocks and the way things are going expect I'll need to do even more. Each group is slightly enhanced from the first group. With each revision there is less tweaking needed on my end on every stock. I have rounded the area behind the receiver group and above the pistol grip a bit and added an inset to both sides of the mag well to accomodate a removable base plate and have reshaped the stock front a bit to more tightly accomodate the stock ferrule. I am waiting to get a site lock to try. I suspect it will work.
The candid input has really helped.
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