oberst42
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"Oh du Deutschland, ich muss marschieren!"
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Post by oberst42 on Oct 15, 2009 18:50:03 GMT -5
You hear these things monthly... "an end to the clone market!!" yeah right... China makes far too much in tax dollars on the exports to just shut them down permanently.... the usual... close them with a government team, yell at people, look at books, pay bribes or fines, back in business 2 days later.
Also pretty much unless you are buying a TM most of the components of every other mass-produced gun come from China/HK. So if they shut down making airsoft guns in China, really almost everyone would be screwed.
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maxatax
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What are we supposed to use harsh language?!
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Post by maxatax on Oct 15, 2009 18:55:29 GMT -5
That is kinda true.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Oct 15, 2009 19:28:44 GMT -5
You hear these things monthly... "an end to the clone market!!" yeah right... China makes far too much in tax dollars on the exports to just shut them down permanently.... the usual... close them with a government team, yell at people, look at books, pay bribes or fines, back in business 2 days later. Also pretty much unless you are buying a TM most of the components of every other mass-produced gun come from China/HK. So if they shut down making airsoft guns in China, really almost everyone would be screwed. Unfortunatly this time it is not BS and has been confirmed with several vendors here in Asia. I'm scheduled to meet with WGC and cop9gun this afternoon and will get their understanding of the situation. Yes, we are screwed, especially WW2 gun fans.
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Post by bluecrabofpain on Oct 15, 2009 19:39:02 GMT -5
Well, maybe if the bigger clone companies go down there might be some reconciliation that Japanese companies might have some new initiative to put some R&D money into new models. As much as I may miss CYMA and they're awsome AK models; maybe the other companies will not try to make new guns that aren't AKs or M4s for once.
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Oct 15, 2009 19:43:31 GMT -5
i say it's a marketing scheme, slowly over the next few months, the vendors will start to close down, then in a few months, they pop back up, and every one goes crazy, bulk orders out the ass, and all the while ACM guys are high fiving behind our backs
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Oct 15, 2009 20:20:57 GMT -5
I pray you are right Oberst42... I really want that MG42. The Chinese are excellent at business and money is the #1 motivator in China. I'll see what the others say today about all the hoopla.
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godo
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Post by godo on Oct 15, 2009 23:24:34 GMT -5
Wait... Is CYMA part of AGM?
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Oct 15, 2009 23:46:28 GMT -5
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Post by bluecrabofpain on Oct 15, 2009 23:48:02 GMT -5
Wait... Is CYMA part of AGM? No, but I can't imagine CYMA is getting through this unscathed.
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Oct 16, 2009 0:23:22 GMT -5
murphy's law, what'll you figure
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Post by Polski on Oct 16, 2009 2:39:32 GMT -5
China: AGM and Cyma news ...bad news. Apparently, both AGM and CYMA's owners has been arrested and factories dismantled. They are being prosecuted for illegal guns manufacture in accordance to PRC's laws. That's it folks. That is why no new products from China lately. News confirmed, as we received almost verbatim message from three different and highly reputable sources. The message above has been retrieved from Airsoftnews.eu airsoft-news.eu/news.phpWhile I agree with oberst42 that this is probably not the end of Chinese airsoft manufacturing, I don't think we shall be receiving our MG42s. I will stress that China's troubles do not mean the end of airsoft. For those who have money, Japan and Taiwan still are, and forever have, produced top quality replicas with innovative internals. P.S. Remember in this thread when there was mention of early AGM MG42s being sold in the thousands, ironic how they just might turn out to be worth that much now. Polski
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Oct 16, 2009 4:20:01 GMT -5
I did meet with both WGC and cop9gun today and discussed the issue. Both confirmed that all Chinese manufacturers are shut down. Both expressed hope that the issue will hopefully be resolved in a few months. Until then nothing will come out of China... Nothing!
Their wishfull thinking that the issue will be resolved is however pure speculation, it is 100% confirmed that the Chinese Goverment has stopped all export and manufacturing.
Sorry
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Post by Ripper on Oct 16, 2009 7:05:03 GMT -5
I wonder how much of this really has to do with the number of lawsuits being filed against Chinese companies for blatant copyright fraud. And not just in the airsoft market. For years, the Chinese government has turned a blind eye to software and luxury goods 'cloning', but now the EU and a number of U.S. companies have filed lawsuits. HK, Trijicon are just a couple of many. When half the world is dragging you into court or refusing to trade with you until you address the problem..it WILL get addressed. Face it.. NOBODY but us will care if the cheap Chinese AEG's go away. The U.S. public doesn't care, and U.S. customs would have to spend a lot less time trying to catch ACOG, HK, and FN SCAR clones being shipped into the country in violation of copyright laws and move onto more 'important' things like pirated software, Rolex watch copies and Guchi handbag fakes . My own personal feelings are that the Chinese AEG makers got thrown under the bus as an example. Time will tell, but that is typicaly how these things are handled over there.
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Totez
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Smokey the Smoke Grenade Rabbit
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Post by Totez on Oct 16, 2009 8:58:59 GMT -5
With every new update on the situation, my heart dies a little more..... On the bright side maybe I should hang on to my CYMA blowback AK47 for a while and see if I get a bit more bang for my buck on that one.... xD
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Oct 16, 2009 9:50:13 GMT -5
I did meet with both WGC and cop9gun today and discussed the issue. Both confirmed that all Chinese manufacturers are shut down. Both expressed hope that the issue will hopefully be resolved in a few months. Until then nothing will come out of China... Nothing!
Their wishfull thinking that the issue will be resolved is however pure speculation, it is 100% confirmed that the Chinese Goverment has stopped all export and manufacturing.
Sorry...
(while I was there I picked up an AGM Sten and more AGM MP44 mags... better safe than sorry)
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Post by Gordak on Oct 16, 2009 11:19:56 GMT -5
WOW
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WhiteRook
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Post by WhiteRook on Oct 16, 2009 11:58:43 GMT -5
This is bad news.
Someone on another forum said that people are probably blowing the whole thing out of proportion. I wish that were so.
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Post by bluecrabofpain on Oct 16, 2009 12:16:56 GMT -5
ALL of the Chinese Companies!? Even VIVA? (the one who actually had its own R&D)? [smashes face against table]. AAARRGHHHH!!!!!! There's only one hope now, well actually a few. 1. TM, Tanak, and the other Japanese companies will start designing new models since there's little chance there will be a chinese ripoff of it. 2. KTW for the love of God stop charging so much money for your wallhagners. 3. All of you guys have to band together and start up your own WWII airsoft factory.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Oct 16, 2009 16:42:17 GMT -5
Shut down =/= dismantled. As far as I've understood, the rest of the companies have shut down production, awaiting the result of... something. A court hearing, maybe?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 16, 2009 16:52:09 GMT -5
For those Polyannas suggesting that anything good will come out of this with regard to development in Japan. Are you smoking crack? Even if they jumped on it immediately and agressively (which they won't) It would be 18 months to 2 years before we would see anything.
This is bad, this is very bad.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Oct 16, 2009 18:12:06 GMT -5
Shut down =/= dismantled. As far as I've understood, the rest of the companies have shut down production, awaiting the result of... something. A court hearing, maybe? Yes, that's my understanding. They think they will start the factories back up after a positive ruling say in December at the earliest but probably later. cop9gun said the factory hit at AGM was the MP44 one, the same one producing the MG42. cop9gun has huge orders to fill for vendors in the EU and America but cannot because nothing can get out of China. It was the first time I had seen their supplies so low. usually the boxes are mountains high but not yesterday. Still some MP44's, MP40's and Stens on the floor but once they are gone it may be a while before a re-stock.
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Oct 16, 2009 18:57:13 GMT -5
i got a gut feeling this is an elaborate scheme, say all the factories are closed down, ww2 ones hit hard, now this is something i would expect china to do, but publicizing it, i think if it was for real we wouldn't hear applesauce , agm employees would be taken outside of town and shot, the standard communist 'possible threat' procedure Are you implying I'm making this up for some financial gain? I'm telling you what I heard and have asked the persons that are in the know for everyone's best interest.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Oct 16, 2009 19:06:50 GMT -5
What companies? the retailers or the factories? This transpired several weeks ago, we as customers are only getting the news now through middlemen and vendors . The China Goverment never published anything. Regardless of what propaganda you read in the US news, China does not just go out a shoot people. I bet Texas and Florida excecute more people than the whole of China.
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oberst42
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"Oh du Deutschland, ich muss marschieren!"
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Post by oberst42 on Oct 17, 2009 16:03:56 GMT -5
regarding my last posts, very sorry if i offended anyone especially kalbs, very sorry, i will keep politics of this board, very sorry, have deleted my posts
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Post by hairy apple on Oct 17, 2009 19:18:33 GMT -5
it is 100% confirmed that the Chinese Goverment has stopped all export and manufacturing. Maybe China figured they have enough US tax payer money that really don't need anymore for a while... But yeah, really bad news for ww2 airsoft, and airsoft in general. Although not as good as Japanese stuff, it was cheap, and it got a lot of people into the sport cheaply. A lot of people are willing to go out and spend $80-100 trying out a new hobby, not as many people are willing to go out and buy a $350+ TM to try out something. MP40. STG44, Sten, M1A1, M14s... all gone. This is bad, and I hope not forever.
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Post by Fusilier on Oct 17, 2009 19:51:20 GMT -5
Communism is a wonderful thing!
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oberst42
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"Oh du Deutschland, ich muss marschieren!"
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Post by oberst42 on Oct 18, 2009 21:04:24 GMT -5
fusilier, i respect your political views, and will keep mine to myself, sorry
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maxatax
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What are we supposed to use harsh language?!
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Post by maxatax on Oct 18, 2009 21:21:49 GMT -5
Well thats pretty much the end of this thread.
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Oct 18, 2009 21:27:38 GMT -5
Well thats pretty much the end of this thread. Hopefully it will be resurected in the near future with good news
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maxatax
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What are we supposed to use harsh language?!
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Post by maxatax on Oct 18, 2009 21:37:24 GMT -5
Yes, hopefully, [long pause] hopefully.
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