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Post by 9thsshohenstaufen on Oct 11, 2008 16:07:06 GMT -5
hey look it's another Flaggrantly Wrong german reenactor with a goatee...  No, rather an exception to the rule. Look hard enough, and you can find just about a shot of anything you want to find in WWII German uniforms/vehciles/equipment etc. No one ever said there was ever 100% clean shaven faces in the German military 100% of the time. However, the overwhelming majority of soldiers, even those on the line and in combat for extended periods, were clean shaven. Exceptions exist, but again, the majority were clean shaven. From the thousands of photos I have looked at, he untold hours of footage I have viewed, to the veterans I have spoken with, I can state with confidence that German soldiers tried to remain as cleanshaven as possible, as a general rule. I guess it gets to the heart of the question of what is WWII airsofting: Is it a) Essentially reenacting just using airsoft guns to add the element of flying projectiles -or- b) Airsofting with a WWII flair to it If it is the former, then I think participants need to look to the "big brother" of WWII Blank Fire reenacting for guidance and standards. And within that realm, it is generally understood that folks are supposed to portray "the norm" rather then the exception. At least that is how most reenactors I know approach things. If it is the latter, then certainly, standards will be more relaxed, since the emphasis is on the game/sport of airsofting and not on re-creating a WWII environment. Bottomline is this: For me, coming from the blankfire world, I view WWII airsofting as an extension of that: It has all the best elements of the blankfire world (accurate uniforms, equipment, tactics, etc.) coupled with non-lethal projectiles. To me, its the perfect marriage. As such, I approach things with an eye towards accuracy and authenticity. That being the case, if I were to see German WWII airsofters at a WWII-themed event that had goatees and mustaches and such, yes, I would think they were Flaggrantly Wrong, simply because they do not represent the "generic" but rather the "exceptional". And especially because, unlike say weight or height or age, it is a "quick fix" to be more accurate, and one that within 7-10 days, is back to where it was before an event. If that makes me a snob, well, so be it, but to me, its about looking and acting authentic that makes WWII themed events, be it airsoft or blankfire, enjoyable and unique. Again, I recognize you will never achieve 100% realism, but that does not mean that settling for less due to laziness or indifference or vanity is a good enough excuse. Sorry to hijack the thread, and thanks to all for posting some really great pics. FWIW, for anyone who has looked through a lot of veteran's personal photo albums, the Germans had a weird thing for naked soldier'ing and doing all kinds of weird stuff behind the lines, such as the shot above with the guys and the branches covering their groins and such. |
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 11, 2008 19:15:01 GMT -5
You did notice the winking smiley right? Perhaps you could lighten up just a bit. It's an anomaly to see at a blankfire or airsoft WW2 event. I'm just not going to nut up over things like that. It's something I would be amused with but it wouldn't "ruin" the event for me. If you started seeing an entire squad with full beards and goatees it might then. This isn't an us and them thing for me. There are reenactors that are total jerk offs that think they are so much better than others and treat people like that and their are airsofters that don't give a crap enough to do any research at all and shouldn't bother to do WW2 airsoft. However those are also anomalies. Most people are helpful to other people when they make mistakes and most people take the advice willingly and try and improve on stuff in both hobbies. We are both on the same side of the shaving thing. I thought I made that clear. You should shave it grows back. Also as a note I did shave for my avatar but the 11am shadow is a mother...I'm a hairy guy  |
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Post by Gordak on Oct 11, 2008 19:23:15 GMT -5
Yeah, we've discussed this issue a billion times here now  Obviously we are all looking for the text book look, but It is fun to see these anomalies . Remember the 101 AB with arm flags thread? LOL That guy was gebirgsjeager, or perhaps he had a scar, or maybe you were allowed facial hair if you were drafted with facial hair? Kurt Meyer and sepp deitrich both sported mustache who the hell knows. -Gordak |
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Ungar
Private
Blut und Ehre
Posts: 227
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Post by Ungar on Oct 11, 2008 19:44:33 GMT -5
The Leibermuster pictures were made in Bohemia in May 1945.
A czech gentleman posted them at wehrmacht-awards.
He had dozens of pictures with soldiers here and there wearing Leibermuster.
By the way Awsome pictures guys.
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Post by 9thsshohenstaufen on Oct 11, 2008 19:52:49 GMT -5
You did notice the winking smiley right? Perhaps you could lighten up just a bit. It's an anomaly to see at a blankfire or airsoft WW2 event. I'm just not going to nut up over things like that. It's something I would be amused with but it wouldn't "ruin" the event for me. If you started seeing an entire squad with full beards and goatees it might then. This isn't an us and them thing for me. There are reenactors that are total jerk offs that think they are so much better than others and treat people like that and their are airsofters that don't give a crap enough to do any research at all and shouldn't bother to do WW2 airsoft. However those are also anomalies. Most people are helpful to other people when they make mistakes and most people take the advice willingly and try and improve on stuff in both hobbies. We are both on the same side of the shaving thing. I thought I made that clear. You should shave it grows back. Also as a note I did shave for my avatar but the 11am shadow is a mother...I'm a hairy guy I did notice, and I understand your position. And I agree, it also would not "ruin" an event for me either. Its just to me, its one of those easily correctible things that folks can take care of with minimal effort. To me, its in the same category as modern watches, modern eyeglasses, not turning off their cell phones during an event (or at least not turning off the ringer), smoking modern cigarettes with the filters still on them, drinking gatorade in plane sight during a break, etc. All are not, by themselves, deal breakers, but they are easily correctible things that folks could do to help authenticity's sake. To me, if you are going to spend the time and money to put together an impression that is based in historical times, you should try and make the effort to be as realisticly close as possible, within the contraints of sanity. I don't expect people to wear period underwear, for example, but I do hope they would take the time to correct easily fixable things to help their impression along. Please, understand, I have not lost sight or focus that this is a hobby, and I don't consider myself a stitch nazi, per se. And I am really not looking to pick a fight with anyone over this, or any other, issue. I just don't like to see folks who take a photo or two, and use it as justification for all kinds of "abnormal" behavior or impressions, because I think it opens a pandora's box of what should be allowed and not be allowed in terms of authenticity standards. For example, I have a pic somewhere of Soldaten in France moving along a country lane pushing baby carriages loaded with ammo and such. While it did happen in real life, I'd cringe at seeing that at an event. That's all I am saying. Photos are great, but one has to realize that are just a milisecond of time, and not necessarily representative of anything other then the briefest of time periods. And the reason there may be photographic evidence of something is simply because it is unusual, and hence, worthy enough to expend film on it. Think about it, when you go on vacation and take pictures, what do you photograph? The mundane and familiar, or the unusual and unique? Film was a precious commodity back then, expensive and not always available, so I would have to think that photograph taking was predicated on it being worthy subject matter. In the grand scheme of things, no, seeing a bunch of guys with beards at an event is not going to tear me up inside, cause me to leave, or even confront them about it. I'd probably just roll my eyes and keep my comments to myself. Its not worth the hassle. But, I would not look very highly upon that unit, nor would I want to really have much to do with them if they knowingly allowed themselves to look that way either due to indifference or laziness. |
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 11, 2008 20:02:57 GMT -5
What if they were period correct baby carriages?? NP Like I said we agree beards and goatees grow back. |
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Adler69
Master sergeant 
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Oct 11, 2008 20:11:52 GMT -5
Not an SS pic , but hey check it out Imperial Japanese Tiger crew ;D  |
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Post by kilroy9thss on Oct 12, 2008 11:02:55 GMT -5
i think they bought a few panthers and tigers but they were never shipped to japan
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Post by Gordak on Oct 13, 2008 9:10:39 GMT -5
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Relish
Private
PICMDEEP
Posts: 261
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Post by Relish on Oct 13, 2008 10:29:23 GMT -5
Lol, where was Godzilla when you needed him :/
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Post by waldo on Oct 13, 2008 10:58:35 GMT -5
Somebody's gotta post the pic of the German Tankers standing by their tanks with the Imperial Walker in the background, german cross and all. ;D
Nick
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Post by shadycadence on Oct 13, 2008 20:57:44 GMT -5
Adam Sandler?  No, I'm pretty sure that's Fred Ward. |
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Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Ersatzjack on Oct 13, 2008 23:01:02 GMT -5
Maybe it's just where my head is at at the moment but I really liked all the pictures with German trucks in them.  Nice photos all. I can't believe sir veilance picked out Mengele. I'll have my eye on him at the next event. |
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Post by flectarn on Oct 16, 2008 1:11:11 GMT -5
The guy in the top post doesnt know what hes talking about. The majority of those pictures are from my blanke fire reenacting unit. www.12hj.com |
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Oct 16, 2008 1:51:17 GMT -5
Hey flectarn , you going to be at Camp Roberts on the 9th on November?
I was there about 2 years ago when the FFI guys went around painting FFI on the German vehicles , i was the one that took the French flag from the hood of the 251 and kept it the entire weekend , the FFI guys where going crazy looking for it ;D
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Post by sir veilance on Oct 16, 2008 7:22:45 GMT -5
Maybe it's just where my head is at at the moment but I really liked all the pictures with German trucks in them. Nice photos all. I can't believe sir veilance picked out Mengele. I'll have my eye on him at the next event. They don't call me Sir Veilance for nothing ;D |
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Post by sir veilance on Oct 16, 2008 7:26:34 GMT -5
The guy in the top post doesnt know what hes talking about. The majority of those pictures are from my blanke fire reenacting unit. www.12hj.comYes many people submit photos of reenactors, but they are easy to spot and they are always called out on them!! Well....Most of the time anyway!! There are some really cool shots of a reenactment in the Ukraine or Russsia...Lots of really cool vehicles!! A Panther and T-34s to name just a few!! |
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Lev
Private 1st Class
Posts: 454
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Post by Lev on Oct 16, 2008 15:57:36 GMT -5
I saw that picture of Mengele in Der Spiegel some months back in an issue about Auschwitz. Definitely creepy stuff.
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Post by flectarn on Oct 16, 2008 23:44:56 GMT -5
Hey flectarn , you going to be at Camp Roberts on the 9th on November? I was there about 2 years ago when the FFI guys went around painting FFI on the German vehicles , i was the one that took the French flag from the hood of the 251 and kept it the entire weekend , the FFI guys where going crazy looking for it ;D I havent been reenacting long enough to know about that, however sounds like hell! Haha. But to answer your question, yes, I shall be there! I wouldnt miss this battle, even if you payed me! |
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Post by binarypunisher on Oct 16, 2008 23:47:06 GMT -5
I will be there too Flectarn! I will be travelling down as a Fallschirm from WA...who are you running with?
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Post by migmadmavis on Oct 16, 2008 23:48:16 GMT -5
Ill be there too hopefully with the 12th SS
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Post by flectarn on Oct 17, 2008 19:50:57 GMT -5
I will be there too Flectarn! I will be travelling down as a Fallschirm from WA...who are you running with? Ill be there with the 12th SS HJ. This is a tactical you wont want to miss! |
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Post by Ripper on Oct 19, 2008 16:26:58 GMT -5
With technology like this, how could they possibly have lost the war???  |
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panzer IB
Private
God Bless the Edelweiss
Posts: 203
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Post by panzer IB on Oct 20, 2008 14:20:02 GMT -5
Actual SS newbs  find whats wrong with them |
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Post by Ripper on Oct 20, 2008 14:23:20 GMT -5
No SS runes or rank insignia on their collars.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 20, 2008 15:25:50 GMT -5
They are not murdering the helpless civilian along with the rest of his village?
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panzer IB
Private
God Bless the Edelweiss
Posts: 203
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Post by panzer IB on Oct 21, 2008 21:01:19 GMT -5
No SS runes or rank insignia on their collars. Your right the reason is that its early war i.e. 1939 and that was when every one looked down on the SS note* they have shiny nebiwe belt buckles and have no y-straps |
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Post by ottoss on Nov 1, 2008 20:59:18 GMT -5
 i got this picture from a german sniper film made back in 44   most of the heer snipers in this film had oak camo |
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Post by kilroy9thss on Nov 15, 2008 20:51:50 GMT -5
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Gerry
Master sergeant
Wilkommen zu Italien!
Posts: 819
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Post by Gerry on Nov 16, 2008 8:29:20 GMT -5
Awesome! Luftwaffe hockey team!
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Obviously we are all looking for the text book look, but It is fun to see these anomalies . Remember the 101 AB with arm flags thread? LOL
