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Post by ash on Mar 31, 2010 18:16:47 GMT -5
I emailed WE seeking official announcement or confirmation of their Sten prototype, but as a nod to you Yanks I also mentioned rumours of a WE M1 Garand. They replied within a couple hours telling me to stay tuned for an official confirmation with winking smiley added, though I imagine this was in reference to the Sten only.
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Post by Fusilier on Mar 31, 2010 18:24:06 GMT -5
More Stens.....yay.
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petermartin14
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Post by petermartin14 on Mar 31, 2010 18:33:48 GMT -5
great....for the british.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 31, 2010 19:03:25 GMT -5
Hopefully it is true about the Garand.
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Post by springfieldarmory on Mar 31, 2010 19:37:01 GMT -5
I got an email from them a little while back that suggested that they were working on a M1 (a marushin clone, but with a few "common sense" adjustments I suggested)
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 31, 2010 20:25:55 GMT -5
Well I hope it isn't a Marushin clone.
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CptJericho
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Post by CptJericho on Mar 31, 2010 22:09:25 GMT -5
I dont care if its a clone, this will open the doorway to make garands.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 31, 2010 22:16:44 GMT -5
If they do a Marushin clone it will be a similar situation to the D Boys Marushin copy of the Kar98 which uses shells. A gas blow back Marushin clone even if done extremely well will NOT be skirmishable, will have performance and reliability issues that will prevent it from filling the void and probably accrue a bad reputation reducing dramatically it's market potential and falsely signalling other manufacturers that there is not a sufficient market for Garands to move forward. I think a Marushin clone would hurt our cause, not help it! Hopefully it will NOT come to pass. A Garand AEG is what is needed and would do extremely well.
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Post by hairy apple on Mar 31, 2010 22:24:38 GMT -5
yeah... just we ww2 airsoft needs... a GBB M1... oh, wait... we have one, and it sucks. WE doesn't do AEG... WE is NOT the one we want to finally produce an M1.
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Post by ash on Mar 31, 2010 23:36:52 GMT -5
great....for the british. And the Polish, and the French, and the Dutch, and the New Zealanders, and the Norwegians, and the Greeks, and, well, I think you get the idea .... Yup, believe it or not, there were plenty of other countries Britain supplied during the war for several years before the Americans joined up, and to this day there is a big wide world outside of the USA where people play WW2 airsoft in non US impressions. Ever think maybe part of the reason US weapons are among the minority produced by airsoft companies might be related to the possibility that US players might be a minority outside of the USA itself? Sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go, but I have noticed that compared to the pan nationalism of CiA's forums, for instance, this board is very US-centric, and may not be entirely representative of the wider scene. Carry on.
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CptJericho
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Post by CptJericho on Apr 1, 2010 1:32:23 GMT -5
If they do a Marushin clone it will be a similar situation to the D Boys Marushin copy of the Kar98 which uses shells. A gas blow back Marushin clone even if done extremely well will NOT be skirmishable, will have performance and reliability issues that will prevent it from filling the void and probably accrue a bad reputation reducing dramatically it's market potential and falsely signalling other manufacturers that there is not a sufficient market for Garands to move forward. I think a Marushin clone would hurt our cause, not help it! Hopefully it will NOT come to pass. A Garand AEG is what is needed and would do extremely well. Ya i see what your sayin, no one wants to shoot only 8 shots then have to reload gas and bbs, using a very complex mechansim that breaks after a short amount of time. also i agree an AEG garand would boost m1 garand sales more than GBB garands.
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Post by specimenhex on Apr 1, 2010 4:33:03 GMT -5
great....for the british. And the Polish, and the French, and the Dutch, and the New Zealanders, and the Norwegians, and the Greeks, and, well, I think you get the idea .... Yup, believe it or not, there were plenty of other countries Britain supplied during the war for several years before the Americans joined up, and to this day there is a big wide world outside of the USA where people play WW2 airsoft in non US impressions. Ever think maybe part of the reason US weapons are among the minority produced by airsoft companies might be related to the possibility that US players might be a minority outside of the USA itself? Sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go, but I have noticed that compared to the pan nationalism of CiA's forums, for instance, this board is very US-centric, and may not be entirely representative of the wider scene. Carry on. Well since this is a forum of mainly Americans as you said, and the thread itself is about weapons we want to see, it's perfectly reasonable that we want to see a Garand and are disappointed that a gas blowback version of a gun that already has a perfectly skirmishable AEG counterpart is being released instead of the airsoft companies coming out with the common rifles of the war. So your post is pretty pointless and is in fact just you "having a go" at Americans. Oh and btw go to the UK forum and look at how many people there want Garands aswell ;], in fact just go there and look how many of them do American impressions.
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Post by ash on Apr 1, 2010 6:20:34 GMT -5
And the Polish, and the French, and the Dutch, and the New Zealanders, and the Norwegians, and the Greeks, and, well, I think you get the idea .... Yup, believe it or not, there were plenty of other countries Britain supplied during the war for several years before the Americans joined up, and to this day there is a big wide world outside of the USA where people play WW2 airsoft in non US impressions. Ever think maybe part of the reason US weapons are among the minority produced by airsoft companies might be related to the possibility that US players might be a minority outside of the USA itself? Sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go, but I have noticed that compared to the pan nationalism of CiA's forums, for instance, this board is very US-centric, and may not be entirely representative of the wider scene. Carry on. Well since this is a forum of mainly Americans as you said, and the thread itself is about weapons we want to see, it's perfectly reasonable that we want to see a Garand and are disappointed that a gas blowback version of a gun that already has a perfectly skirmishable AEG counterpart is being released instead of the airsoft companies coming out with the common rifles of the war. So your post is pretty pointless and is in fact just you "having a go" at Americans. Oh and btw go to the UK forum and look at how many people there want Garands aswell ;], in fact just go there and look how many of them do American impressions. I don't think it's unreasonable to want a Garand, I do think it's unreasonable to post pointless snark in response to a comment that a prototype is in the works for a WW2 weapon which isn't the one you wanted. Besides, plenty of countries don't allow full auto airsoft guns, which rules out both AEG Stens for a lot of players all round the world, which makes the possibility of a GBB option which can be made semi a significant event, albeit one which doesn't brighten your life personally And as you may have gathered, a skirmishable semi auto only weapon like a Garand is ideal for a country like mine. As for your last point, I am aware that there are plenty of enthusiastic non Americans who do US impressions, usually to a very high standard, hell, I'd probably get around to it myself someday if I hadn't got several theaters of British and NZ impressions to keep me occupied. Anyway, we should stop spamming up this thread with our nationalistic man-hugging and stick to praying for new guns
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Apr 1, 2010 7:06:04 GMT -5
Ok children , are we all done arguing ? or does anyone need a time out?
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 1, 2010 9:22:04 GMT -5
Well we can't stop whatever happens. Any WWII Gun as long as its skirmishable is good. If WE made a clone Marushin M1 Garand it would stink though. It would most likely be unskirmishable and not only that but it would also be useless in most other respects. It wouldn't be good for using it for conversion parts as WE's guns are usually on the higher end $350 or more. I could buy all original Garands parts I need for a conversion for under $150 instead of spending $350 on a WE Garand. So yeah if they made one I hope they will make a totally new design. The chances of that happening are not the greatest. A rumer through email can mean nothing. Until then I am hoping ARES or AGM will make one.
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CptJericho
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Post by CptJericho on Apr 1, 2010 10:13:20 GMT -5
What happens if WE makes a GBB garand but the gas system is simpler and doesnt break after a few shots, and they also make a bigger clip that holds more shots. that would be semi skirmishable.
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Post by specimenhex on Apr 1, 2010 10:19:21 GMT -5
I think if they made a larger magazine that went in the bottom it would be infinitely more effective, I for one would sacrifice realism for efficiency, also i wouldn't even mind if it were non-blowback.
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CptJericho
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Post by CptJericho on Apr 1, 2010 10:31:46 GMT -5
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Post by specimenhex on Apr 1, 2010 10:44:25 GMT -5
It would be so much easier if some company just took 2ndbat's way of doing them and mass produced it, with mags ready made to fit the gun, they could use a gearbox system similar to the TM SG1 to keep it semi-automatic only. Maybe even a gearbox release switch for in case the gearbox locks up, similar to the RS SVD.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 1, 2010 10:56:38 GMT -5
For $350 I'd expect a Garand that would last me a lifetime! The Marushin is truly a rip off for $500. Any company could copy 2nd Bats Idea using a clone TM M14 gearbox, why they choose not I have no clue. As for a higher capacity mag they could just sell something like a M14 magazine separately for the silly high cap modern skirmishers. A gas GBB Garand would be neat. Looking at a Marushin M1 Garand mag it looks like it wouldn't be hard to make one that excepted 20-30 rounds. I wouldn't suggest anyone making one though. Marushin already failed us. Skip the GBB lets see an AEG. I am not counting on any one making any type of Garand soon though. Maybe If I ever make a company when I am older I'll do it seriously I will ;D Until then I am just going to forget about it and let what happens happen.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Apr 1, 2010 11:26:37 GMT -5
Having looked at the gas system in the upcoming GBB M14, it would make a GBB M1 work reasonably well. It's akin to the newest system TM uses in their Hi-Capa and 1911 models, as opposed to the silly applesauce Marushin tried to pull off with their Garand.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 1, 2010 11:51:43 GMT -5
Yes but will they use there GBB M14 system or copy the junky Marushin one? I guess we will see, if it happens at all that is.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 1, 2010 15:32:58 GMT -5
The biggest plus in the WE GBB system is the gas reservoir is in the clip (or magazine) Hence you are reloading both BBs and gas when you change magazines (clips) A Garand clip vs the M14 mag in their new (to be introduced) M14 would have to be extremely small and I'm not sure it would provide sufficient volume of space to provide both adequate gas and a reasonable capacity of rounds. Clips containing both gas and Bbs would also be quite expensive so buying an adequate number would get real spendy, real quick even if they were capable and skirmishable. I continue to believe the AEG approach is the right one for a Garand and six and half years later continue to hope it will come about. In the meantime my Garands start at $425.00 and complete kits are $145.00. (ready to go on your M14) while certainly not perfect they are skirmishable and available. (commercial over)
My goal continues to be for some large company to put me out of business and to constantly remind them that the business is clearly there. My production in the next two weeks will exceed 300 as the latest six will put me over. (Some of these sold for as much as $1200.00!!!!!) Shoot n Scoot has produced quite a few I'm sure, the fellow in the Phillipines did a bunch and I think is still making them and then private individuals (many on this board) have probably produced another 500 or so. Hence there are already at least 1500 Garand AEGs in circulation. All produced at great expense and time. Imagine how well, affordable ones would sell?
It's an iconic gun, so logical and yet... It makes me crazy.
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Post by Fusilier on Apr 1, 2010 15:44:39 GMT -5
The biggest plus in the WE GBB system is the gas reservoir is in the clip (or magazine) Hence you are reloading both BBs and gas when you change magazines (clips) A Garand clip vs the M14 mag in their new (to be introduced) M14 would have to be extremely small and I'm not sure it would provide sufficient volume of space to provide both adequate gas and a reasonable capacity of rounds. Clips containing both gas and Bbs would also be quite expensive so buying an adequate number would get real spendy, real quick even if they were capable and skirmishable. I continue to believe the AEG approach is the right one for a Garand and six and half years later continue to hope it will come about. In the meantime my Garands start at $425.00 and complete kits are $145.00. (ready to go on your M14) while certainly not perfect they are skirmishable and available. (commercial over) My goal continues to be for some large company to put me out of business and to constantly remind them that the business is clearly there. My production in the next two weeks will exceed 300 as the latest six will put me over. (Some of these sold for as much as $1200.00!!!!!) Shoot n Scoot has produced quite a few I'm sure, the fellow in the Phillipines did a bunch and I think is still making them and then private individuals (many on this board) have probably produced another 500 or so. Hence there are already at least 1500 Garand AEGs in circulation. All produced at great expense and time. Imagine how well, affordable ones would sell? It's an iconic gun, so logical and yet... It makes me crazy. >> You're absolutely right,as an iconice rifle.BUT,as I've said before,AS is a full auto sport/hobby. People/kids love to spray and pray so to speak. Owning a replica of a weapon they will more than likely ever shoot,let alone own. i'm guilty of this myself,owning a few sub guns and a few LMG types. Kids today grew up on full auto in video games and movies. Its not until BoB and other new WW2 movies and video games that bolt guns are becoming popular again. again,makes me crazy as well...
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Post by ash on Apr 1, 2010 16:51:53 GMT -5
Well we can't stop whatever happens. Any WWII Gun as long as its skirmishable is good. If WE made a clone Marushin M1 Garand it would stink though. It would most likely be unskirmishable and not only that but it would also be useless in most other respects. It wouldn't be good for using it for conversion parts as WE's guns are usually on the higher end $350 or more. I could buy all original Garands parts I need for a conversion for under $150 instead of spending $350 on a WE Garand. So yeah if they made one I hope they will make a totally new design. The chances of that happening are not the greatest. A rumer through email can mean nothing. Until then I am hoping ARES or AGM will make one.A) Exactly the attitude I think WW2 AS needs; the more skirmishable models available, the better, it will create momentum for companies to follow up on. Capitalism works best when consumers are active in announcing the form of their demand, rather than sit back while companies second guess what they think people want. With that in mind .... B) WW2 Airsoft players should campaign actively for skirmishable basics - Garands, K98s, Lee Enfields which aren't overpriced wall hangers like those frustrating Marushins. I think it would be great if we simply organized to select companies like Ares or AGM and collectively besieged them with mass emails about the models we want. For instance, I would never need a K98 because I don't do German, but I would happily flick off a few emails as part of a campaign for one, because it benefits the genre - I know plenty of German players who have MP40/44s, but just want a good K98 springer that doesn't break the bank Perhaps we just need to do like we did with WE and announce on the forum which company is to be lobbied, and lobby them. I will happily spare the time to push for any WW2 AS weapon.
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Post by Fusilier on Apr 1, 2010 17:38:32 GMT -5
I really think WW2 weapons are gaining momentum. I mean really,how many different versions of an M16/M4 do we need out there??? Ditto AK's!
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Post by specimenhex on Apr 1, 2010 18:04:04 GMT -5
i just cannot understand why there aren't springer kar98's, lee-enfiled's, and mosin nagants out, i may be oversimplifying it but it just seems like some of the simplest guns for an airsoft company to make, doesn't even have to be real wood on the stocks really.
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Apr 1, 2010 18:11:01 GMT -5
i just cannot understand why there aren't springer kar98's, lee-enfiled's, and mosin nagants out, i may be oversimplifying it but it just seems like some of the simplest guns for an airsoft company to make, doesn't even have to be real wood on the stocks really. Because to a lot of kids , springer's are not as "cool" as M4's , SCAR's , AK's ,TAVOR's............ Simple really , high cap , full auto , tacticool weapons sell more . Airsot companies make more money selling hundreds of tacticool weapons all over the world than they do selling WWII weapons . It's called supply and demand , there are more modern weapons out there because there is a much higher demand for those type of weapons.
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Post by specimenhex on Apr 1, 2010 18:23:19 GMT -5
Hopefully we can convince them to take the chance and show them that there IS a demand for these types of weapons,. It wouldn't be THAT much of a risk really to make say a skirmishable plastic stocked lee-enfield material and cost wise i wouldn't think. British and Common Wealth players along with American players would i believe pounce on it in a hearbeat. All it takes is one company to take a chance and not half ass it.
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Apr 2, 2010 10:10:39 GMT -5
Some interesting GBB gun technology has been developed of late and I see no reason why some of this engineering cannot be used in developing a good WW2 Gas fired rifle or smg. KJ Works of Taiwan has released some excellent GBB co2 pistols that fire in the 380 fps range while WE and their GBB M4 series are setting new standards.
I say use the Tanaka style Gas tech for bolt actions like Enfields, Kars, Mosin's and etc. Use KJ Works co2 GBB tech design for M1 Carbines and smg's and WE blowback system design for M1 garands and other Semi-auto rifles. Save the AEG for the MG's
Whatever they come up with, I pray they stay clear of ejecting shells and empty clips. It's not practical for game play.
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