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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 20, 2012 21:37:10 GMT -5
Is it me, or have I seen a WW2 Luger in the market? Every time I search for one, I find some, but they are all black and have 8 inch barrels. But for some reason, I can't shake the feeling that I have seen a WW2 looking one (with the brown grips). Does anyone know where you could find this?
Forgive me if I put this in the wrong thread, but I thought of this as an impression question. My dad is considering building one and I want to encourage him. I will also post this in the market section.
Thanks in advance for the help!
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Post by Forever_Kaos on Mar 20, 2012 21:50:45 GMT -5
A few people have modded real grips onto theirs, it's not horribly hard.
Finicky perhaps, but easy enough to do with some files and sandpaper, perhaps a dremel to speed things up.
You can also find the standard 6 inch by WE, their Lugers are pretty well the most common out there now these days, as Tanaka ceased producing theirs.
Only downfall with the WE, is the tendency to go full auto after good use (1000-2000 rounds give or take)
There is some fixes out on Youtube and some forums as to how to fix.
Currently love mine, awesome piece.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 20, 2012 22:00:18 GMT -5
Yes, the WE Luger is the mot popular, I agree. The standard issue for a German officer was a 4 inch barrel am I right? But what I want to know is if a company like WE has one available that already has the right grips and the right WW2 look. Not an all black one.
And I have seen the full auto tendency ad misfires that it brings. That is a huge downside. I have a WE 1911 and it is the most reliable pistol I have ever owned (not to mention the realism). It has never given me any major problems and it is still kicking like a champ.
So I trust WE.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 21, 2012 17:36:32 GMT -5
Yes, the WE Luger is the mot popular, I agree. The standard issue for a German officer was a 4 inch barrel am I right? But what I want to know is if a company like WE has one available that already has the right grips and the right WW2 look. Not an all black one. And I have seen the full auto tendency ad misfires that it brings. That is a huge downside. I have a WE 1911 and it is the most reliable pistol I have ever owned (not to mention the realism). It has never given me any major problems and it is still kicking like a champ. So I trust WE. Their Lugers completely suck. They do have a WWII version availible but they are very hard to find. Mostly the 6 inch Navy version, but I saw a few 8 inch Artillary Lugers |
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how
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Shoot or be shot
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Post by how on Mar 21, 2012 18:28:00 GMT -5
evike.com has all lengths of barrels but they are mostly out of stock
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 21, 2012 19:27:05 GMT -5
evike.com has all lengths of barrels but they are mostly out of stock Yes I know, but I'm looking for the WW2 one, not the all black one  |
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 21, 2012 20:48:19 GMT -5
evike.com has all lengths of barrels but they are mostly out of stock Yes I know, but I'm looking for the WW2 one, not the all black one Like I said they are very hard to find. It was probably a special edition. The black ones would work fine though, the 4 inch is hard to find and so is the 8 inch the only one I found the the 6" They are nearly the same and nobody would tell the difference |
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 21, 2012 20:59:46 GMT -5
Hmmm, and no other company has Lugers out in the market currently besides WE right?
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 22, 2012 16:46:29 GMT -5
Hmmm, and no other company has Lugers out in the market currently besides WE right? Tanaka does but they are extremely hard to find and too expensive. |
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 22, 2012 19:21:25 GMT -5
Hmmm, yeah I see. So if I get a Luger it's going to have a WE. Also, I have another question.
The Luger was more for officers, so was the Walther P38 more of a soldier's pistol?
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 22, 2012 20:47:35 GMT -5
Lugers were very rare, and allied soldiers from WWI & WWII were always looking for them. Officers may have used them a but more than soldier's used them, but still mostly the Walther P38. I'd say 80%~ of germans used P38's (The ones that were issued pistols anyway) I found this P38 made by Crossman and called a P41 (Co2): <------ haha that made a sad face www.pyramidairsoft.com/ProductDetails1.aspx?ProductID=2370You'd think because it's so cheap and made by Crossman it'd be crap, but it's actually not that bad. |
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 22, 2012 22:01:30 GMT -5
Yes, haha if an allied soldier got their hands on a Luger, that was that haha. Honestly, I would never trust a Crossman for a weapon, (maybe only for Co2 cartridges). I'd rather get the Maruzen Umarex one. Yes, it is way more expensive, but I'm sure it would be worth it.
But wow, I did not know that the P38 was THAT popular in the German forces. I though it was barely seen and that Lugers were the primary sidearm.
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cairo1
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Post by cairo1 on Mar 22, 2012 22:29:50 GMT -5
the P.08 commonly referred to as the "Luger" was produced up to 1942. the last models of the lugers were all dip blued (IE no straw color) and had black plastic grips. These are some of the More rare lugers and are referred to as "black widows" by collectors. the Luger was phased out due to their tight tolerances, and frequent jamming. tehy were very susceptible to fouling. as for the common soldier a pistol i would recommend would me things that were not issued, Foreign captured guns, Guns brought from home. i have seen quite a few pictures of Germans with C96 stuffed into their boots and belts. along with the polish Vis and various Czech guns.
That new TT33, and the 1911 would be great pistols to stuff inbetween your ammo pouches and your belt.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 22, 2012 23:01:33 GMT -5
Very insightful information, cairo1, thank you! But brown grips were originally used on it right?
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 23, 2012 17:55:54 GMT -5
Yes they were the original ones, but the later ones were black. Remember though they were out of production in 1942 so a luger with black grips should be fine with any year of the war.
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Post by Schmozilla on Mar 23, 2012 21:34:35 GMT -5
garnett, ill bring my crosman one to the next game and show you guys it, its actually very well made mine has survived well over a year.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 24, 2012 13:05:15 GMT -5
garnett, ill bring my crosman one to the next game and show you guys it, its actually very well made mine has survived well over a year. Yeah alot of crossmans weapons aren't too bad. I'm probably going to buy the P41, alot of reviews said they are actually very reliable |
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Mar 25, 2012 16:58:27 GMT -5
Very few soldiers carried pistols.
FJ 'other ranks' were issued them for self defence until they found their weapons cannisters for early drops but the only people usually issued pistols were those men who didnt need a larger small arm to do their job.
Any soldier caught carrying a weapon that wasnt issued to him and in his soldbuch would have that weapon confiscaed by the Spiess, other duty NCOs or an officer.
Most guys in wwii never saw anythign other than a bolt action rifle for the duration. Its a very modern thing to have 'sidearms' and not wwii at all.
You see a lot of guys in uk wwii airsoft carrying wwii pistols if they have a rifle as a main weapon but that purely because their is normally a rule preventing you from using AEGs/springer over 350fps at ranges less than 20 metres.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 25, 2012 17:01:51 GMT -5
Oh damn, I didn't know that.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 25, 2012 18:16:31 GMT -5
Very few soldiers carried pistols. FJ 'other ranks' were issued them for self defence until they found their weapons cannisters for early drops but the only people usually issued pistols were those men who didnt need a larger small arm to do their job. Any soldier caught carrying a weapon that wasnt issued to him and in his soldbuch would have that weapon confiscaed by the Spiess, other duty NCOs or an officer. Most guys in wwii never saw anythign other than a bolt action rifle for the duration. Its a very modern thing to have 'sidearms' and not wwii at all. You see a lot of guys in uk wwii airsoft carrying wwii pistols if they have a rifle as a main weapon but that purely because their is normally a rule preventing you from using AEGs/springer over 350fps at ranges less than 20 metres. I didn't know if soldiers were caught with a weapon that wasn't issued to them it would be confiscated... What if they lost theirs and found a new one, or took a better one from a dead enemy. Was that only the German army that did that? Most of the fields around here it doesn't matter what range you are but within ~20 meters you usually call the kill instead of shooting |
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Mar 25, 2012 18:19:00 GMT -5
Honestly before you buy even a single bit of kit you really need to read some very basic books.
Start off with something like Ospreys books on the Waffen SS, it will give you a good grounding and cost about 10 dollars... but you wont regret it. It wont be detailed enough to make you an expert but you'll at least know the basics of uniforms, who was issued what and the rank structure.
If you start buying stuff 'blind' you're just going to waste loads of money and end up with a Flaggrantly Wrong or daft looking impression that will impress the guys on an open day but have your wwii mates rolling their eyes.
I know books seem like a dull option compared to spending 10 dollars on some kit but you *cant* get all the info you need of the interent as a lot of stuf online is just wrong or people trying to sell you incorrect items, those vendors dont care if you look stupid as long as they have your money.
Buy a book (or many), do loads of research, buy once, buy well....
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 25, 2012 18:27:19 GMT -5
Will do my friend!
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cairo1
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Post by cairo1 on Mar 25, 2012 19:40:06 GMT -5
I never read a single book about uniforms, look at original photos, models and kick ass dragon action figures you can find it all there.
further more i don't believe your statement gadge. i have seen multiple pics of Germans carrying M1 carbines which i know they loved. At my local gun show i have a friendly German who was transferred from the Luftwaffe in 44 into the army. he told me he had his uncles revolver shipped to him and he aways kept it in his gas cape pouch. its by no means hard to find pictures of the average landser whit a captured weapon. and we all know of the infamous use of PPShs in German hands. i have also seen Army Regulars who used captured hunting rifles.
while a luger or P38 may be a bit farb to Cary as a side arm, other cheap German pocket pistols, and full sized foreign pistols are A-OK in my book.
On top of that, this is airsoft. a guy wearing all one shade of field gray, or being covered in camo is way more Flaggrantly Wrong then having a side arm.
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Mar 25, 2012 19:54:34 GMT -5
You are talking about exceptions.
Plenty of guys would use stuff in an emergency and on the front line but as soon as they went back the rear the fieldgendarmerie woudl have it off them if it wasnt in their soldbuch. I'm not making that up its was in the amry regulations. You had to be able to show documented issue for every thing you were carrying to prove you hadnt looted it.
Carrying an m1 carbine might have been great for a short time but the reality is that the logistics train of yuor army isnt geared up to carry spares and ammo for it and if you threw away your own rifle to carry a captured weapon you had to be able to convince the 'chain dogs' that you had lost your weapon in combat or you would be on a charge.
I dont mind if you ddont believe it but its history and fact, read a few wehrmacht war diarys and you'll soon find this to be true.
Captured and non standard weapons tend to be used in two examples.
Short term expediency (like the german use of brens dropped t them by mistake by the raf at the battle for arnhem) and when the ammo runs out they are dropped/
or
Rear area units who are not expected to use a lot of ammo, you see things like atlantic wall formations with captured thompsons etc, this makes sense as you can stock pile all your captured ammo in the same place.
No commander wants his units going out using sixteen different calibres of ammunition, it makes ressuply a total nightmare.
And i assume you're joking about using toy figures as reference.. ?
And look to your own example... your friendly german kept that revolver in a gas cape pouch... probably because he knew if he wore it on his hip the Spiess would have it off him in minutes.
Yeah some captured weapons were clearly used but its incredibly rare.
Google 'wwii german soldier' taking only the first 100 pics of the search and only the original ones from the war i'd be amazed if more than 2 per cent showed captured guns and the proportional will only be above average as its an unusual thing that folk would like to put on websites.
So whether you can believe it or not it was against army regulations to be in possession of anything not noted down in your soldbuch and you could and did get into a lot of trouble for it.
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Mar 25, 2012 20:04:46 GMT -5
Add on. This discussion came up on the UK boards and the same advice regarding 'non standard kit' was given by guys who really know their stuff and have been re-enacting german units since the 70s. Brian B on this thread is one of the most respected axis re-enactors there is www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=72843and from the excellent 'feldgrau' site "Soldbuch: The basic pay and identity document booklet for all active-duty German soldiers. The Soldbuch was created and issued to a soldier soon after his entry into active duty service during wartime. Before the war simple ID documents such as a Truppenausweis were used which were to be kept by a soldier on his person at all times for purposes of identification. Initially the Soldbuch did not contain a photo, but a military-dress photo was later required around 1943 as a security measure. Other security measures added later included the addition of a quarterly check by the soldiers unit. The Soldbuch contained information on the soldiers pay grade, clothing, equipment, weapons issued, current unit of assignment, as well as his assigned replacement unit. All previous replacement units were crossed out in such a way as to remain legible. Medical information such as eye and tooth care and hospitalizations was also included, as well as awards and leaves. The Soldbuch was the document the "Chain Dog" (Not-so-friendly term for the armed German military police soldier), were most interested when stopping soldiers for questioning, etc.
A soldier was required to have the equipment listed in the Soldbuch on his person and to also be wearing the correct awards as listed - or else the soldier could be in serious trouble! The Soldbuch was first conceived as a document for receiving pay from units other than a soldiers inital home unit, but as seen above, soon evolved into a much more detailed identification document. Upon discharge the Soldbuch was intended to be destroyed, but due to collapse of the Wehrmacht, many soldiers retained their Soldbuch as a surrogate Wehrpass, and many exist today for collectors and researchers to study." |
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 25, 2012 20:57:30 GMT -5
Keep the info rolling! This is interesting!
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Mar 26, 2012 5:37:47 GMT -5
I also forgot to mention that the very famous pics from the battle of the bulge where one or two guys are carrying m1s (and one has a browning pisto) were also staged and shot in a hurry.... not really representative.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 26, 2012 6:38:23 GMT -5
Damn gadge! You really know your stuff!
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Mar 26, 2012 7:12:13 GMT -5
Yeah its my job  No honestly it's my job. I wrote for WWII Re-enactors magazine, I wrote WWII kit guides for Airsoft International magazine and I currently write for Airsoft Action. My other job is organising WWII airsoft battles in the UK and I co-run a large WWII living history group who provide skilled re-enactors for museums around the country. So I make it a point of honour to be sure i'm right about stuff before i post as it's my proffesional reputation. Dont get me wrong I have no issue whatsoever with folk skirmishing in a green boiler suit with a swastika drawn on the side if thats what they want to do but you seem keen to know what's 'right' and if you're going to spend loads of money buying it from scratch it would make more sense to get the right stuff first time eh? If i'm honest with you i'll tell you (as i've said to others before) that I made al the same mistakes when i started doing german impressions. While I'd done brit units accurately for years I only started doing germans to help out a friend run his battle. I threw togeher my first german impression using an old east german uniform, czech y straps and an austrian camo smock.. looked rubbish but gave the general look. Then when i went to buy stuff i really screwed the pooch. I didnt bother reading up properly or listenning to people and did an elite 'brandenburg commando' impression.... i think i spent more on blingy awards than i did on the actual tunic. It wasnt accurate, looked stupid (i thought it was well cool at the time) and all the guys who knew their stuff were having a good laugh in secret at it. I also massivly overdid it on the camo with a smock, helmet cover, zeltbahn and over trousrs in matching patterns... so when i try and advise/steer guys about to make the same mistakes here i do so because I made those mistakes myself and it cost me a fotune and i dont want anone else to waste all their money. I'm *not* telling you these things because i want to make out like I know everthing... i have learnt a lot about german kit in the last eight years though Here look at this...  I thought that looked cool but its frankly rubbish, the trousers are wrong, the tunic is really early war but the helmet cover and trousers are late war.... i've got *two* cufftitles on (you cant see the 'brandenburg' on the other arm - a third 'afrika' went on about a day later!) and the rank is far too low for someone who (going by the cufftitles) was at crete and the african campaign. Thats the result of buying stuff cos it looks cool After reading up a bit i moved the impression to mid war gross deustchland (still a bit naff as its 'elite') and i'm still got too much camo on... boots are us jungle boots too!  Eventually I manage to get it looking a bit better. Here most the camo has gone and the helmet has a more credible spray paint camo, its early normandy but based on a photo of a senior nco (hence the jackboots) who is a russian front veteran (krim shield on the arm and collar silver tress).  Getting to that last impression that i'm happy with probably cost me about 400 gbp i didnt need to spend and wouldnt have spent if i'd had read 20 gbp of books.... Stuff i bought i didnt need... Camo parka and trousers -about 100 gbp wrong tunic for late war, well not 'wrong' but unikely and not typical - about 70 gbp camo smock - 35 gbp camo helmet cover - 15 gbp three cufftitles - 40 gbp about six metal combat awards i didnt need - about 70/80 gbp and other stuff i cant remember but there alone we're looking at wasting 330 gbp alone... |
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Post by tommygunner9 on Mar 26, 2012 19:05:20 GMT -5
OK PERFECT! Now that you posted pictures let me ask you. We are going to use the last picture as the reference picture. Would the impression be accurate if it looked like you but with these chages:
1.) Used an M40 tunic (or 42) but lost the rid ribbon thing you have coming out of it.
2.) Got the SS collar tabs
3.) Sew on the eagle where your current insignia is (left arm)
4.) I can't tell if you are wearing an mp40 gunner's webgear but let's say you are. So wear an mp40 gunner's webgear
That is like the general idea of how I want it to look. SInce you osted pictures, it gives me a perfect opportunit to read back your previous info and also visualize the input you are going to give me when you reply to this. Tha would be greatly appreciated.
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