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Johnson
Apr 10, 2012 15:06:59 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 10, 2012 15:06:59 GMT -5
Anyone know of anyone who has made a Johnson auto rifle or machine gun in airsoft?
also I know they weren't used much at all in ww2 except some rifles were used by the marines in the early years in the pacific and some special units in the ETO used the Johnson MG.
Anyone have any further info?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Johnson
Apr 12, 2012 15:40:00 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 12, 2012 15:40:00 GMT -5
Certainly no major manufacturers makes one as since it is such an obscure weapon, no one is likely to anytime soon. We are still eagerly awaiting common battle rifles in skirmishable form. I haven't even heard of anyone making a custon one off but there is probably someone somewhere?
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roma
Private
4th Ivy division
Posts: 247
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Johnson
Apr 12, 2012 16:14:30 GMT -5
Post by roma on Apr 12, 2012 16:14:30 GMT -5
I think not, no reasons to make it.
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Johnson
Apr 12, 2012 16:59:00 GMT -5
Post by volkssturm on Apr 12, 2012 16:59:00 GMT -5
From what I've read the only combat use by US troops was in the Solomons by the paramarines, who were issued some of the rifles that had been ordered by the Dutch for the East Indies. The only other use was by the OSS in Southeast Asia. And the Johnson LMG of course was used by the 1st Special Service Force. It would seem like the combination of the Johnson Rifle and Johnson LMG would have been ideal for the paratroops (one of the selling points of the Johnson was that the barrel could be easily removed to make it easier to jump with). Kind of a shame, because it sure would be fun to have them available as airsoft guns. But not likely to happen.
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HornetWSO
Private 1st Class
"We may not have a history, but we have a rendezvous with destiny!"
Posts: 551
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Johnson
Apr 12, 2012 17:24:56 GMT -5
Post by HornetWSO on Apr 12, 2012 17:24:56 GMT -5
From what I've read the only combat use by US troops was in the Solomons by the paramarines, This implies that it was Mostly the Marines that had Johnsons, but, . . . Wait for it . . . every GI had a Johnson! ;D
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Johnson
Apr 12, 2012 19:30:20 GMT -5
Post by volkssturm on Apr 12, 2012 19:30:20 GMT -5
From what I've read, the Garand and the Johnson were about comparable in performance. But the Johnson had one major flaw that guaranteed it would never be adopted by the Army. It was invented by a Marine.
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Johnson
Apr 12, 2012 20:41:38 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 12, 2012 20:41:38 GMT -5
Thanks guys! I was thinking of putting together a Marine or Paramarine impression, as i already have most things together for my US Airborne and General Infantry impressions, and I have been interested in these little used weapons.
But was the Johnson Auto Rifle ever used by ordinary Marines? I once heard somewhere that some were employed before the production of the Garand could be ramped up fully, and many marines were reluctant to convert to the garand. Any truth there?
If this is true, i may attempt to build my own AEG Johnson rifle over the summer. ;D
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 2:05:39 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 19, 2012 2:05:39 GMT -5
It would be an interesting build.Doing one up for yourself would most likely be the only way to end up with one. The actual gun was more difficult to field strip and had easily lost but essential parts that contributed to it not being adopted. They were generally well liked by those who fielded them. The straight back rear stock was a precursor to many main battle rifles that followed. If you decide to do one up keep us posted.
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 8:17:05 GMT -5
Post by warbirdguy1 on Apr 19, 2012 8:17:05 GMT -5
I do not even know what gun would be used in a conversion to make this! Maybe an M14? I had a dream about a "G&G M1941 to be released next week" last night and had the see if it was real this morning lol.
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 11:30:09 GMT -5
Post by volkssturm on Apr 19, 2012 11:30:09 GMT -5
I think you could probably take an M14 and make a "close enough for airsoft" replica. You'd have to reshape the buttstock and the pistol grip, round off the fore end, and glue that big lump of a rotary magazine on to it. Cut down the existing M14 receiver and make a shell to go over it that looks like the Johnson receiver. The biggest problem would be figuring out how to do the magazine.
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 16:43:33 GMT -5
Post by aj czarkowski on Apr 19, 2012 16:43:33 GMT -5
I do not even know what gun would be used in a conversion to make this! Maybe an M14? I had a dream about a "G&G M1941 to be released next week" last night and had the see if it was real this morning lol. Nice dream lol... I found an old book called Battle Cry, about Marines (2nd I think) on Guadacanal. They used tons of rare weapons! It seems like the Army just used the absolute most common ones
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 17:16:42 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 19, 2012 17:16:42 GMT -5
I would most likely use an m14 as the conversion base but I would most likely make my own stock to match the m1941 more accurately. As for the magazine, I dont think it would be too hard to make a rotary magazine like the original gun and load it through the side of the weapon using a speed loader or something. For the receiver cover, I can pour a casting of aluminum and machine the shape to match the original (I major in Mechanical Engineering ;D). It would be ALOT of work but if it comes out alright, it would be a nice weapon to skirmish with! but its deffinitly in my list behind a AEP m1 carbine build.
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 19:43:43 GMT -5
Post by jettalewis on Apr 19, 2012 19:43:43 GMT -5
This is something I would love to see built. I've owned a couple of Johnsons and yes they were used during WW2. Not much, but were used.
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 21:04:57 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 19, 2012 21:04:57 GMT -5
As far as the magazine goes, i was thinking of using an permanent internal midcap one that would be fed by a speed loader. As seen from the rear, it would be a C shape and have a 90 degree bend at the top to go to the hop unit. At this bend would be a secondary tube that goes straight out to the right side from the bend to falicitate loading. Also at the 90 degree bend would be a triangle shaped insert that would be spring loaded to move down and out of the way for loading of bb's. This triangle piece would deflect the bb's inside the magazine up and into the hop unit. When a speed loader is inserted into the right side of the gun and bb's are forced in, they would push the triangle piece down into its recess and allow the bb's to be pushed into the internal magazine. Once the bb's are in the magazine, no pressure would be exerted on the triangle and it would snap back into position, preventing the magazine from spitting bb's out and would force them into the hop unit once again. This would allow the mag to be reloaded at anytime while firing, but would mean that there would always be a few bb's left over in the hop unit unless the gun is tipped over and discharged. I may attempt to include a magazine release that retracts the triangel piece and allows the mag to be emptied rapidly. Any comments or ideas regarding my planning? P.s. sorry for such a long post!
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 22:35:01 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 19, 2012 22:35:01 GMT -5
Also i was thinking of making the barrel removable like the original! Having the Barrel separate right in front of the hop unit, with telescoping tubes to falicitate positive joining without any ridges within the barrel connection.
Idk, in case i have to jump out of any planes to get to an airsoft event! ;D
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 22:56:21 GMT -5
Post by fatheranderson on Apr 19, 2012 22:56:21 GMT -5
They used tons of rare weapons! It seems like the Army just used the absolute most common ones That's because Marines were considered second by the government, which liked to send them all of the old stuff left over from WWI and the "We're not sure if this really works, but here ya go" stuff. Just look at the Reising M50 Machine Carbine. It's a good solid weapon when regularly maintained, but it absolutely was NOT designed for the type of conditions seen in the Pacific theater, yet that was where it was deployed almost exclusively (I think a few made it to Russia and Turkey as lend lease items, but those are the only other locations I can think of). The 1903A3 is another great example. It was absolutely obsolete when compared to the M1 Garand, but Remington and Smith Corona couldn't afford to tool up for Garand production, so they simply purchased the leftover machinery from Springfield and Rock Island, respectively, and began cranking out a simplified version of the 1903 rifle (although this time they didn't have to pay royalties to Mauserwerke... for whatever that's worth) Anyway, I've gotten completely off the topic at hand... the Johnson would be a fantastic build, but there are some... complications... with the LMG variation that need to be taken into consideration, with the main ones being the front sight, bipod, buttstock, and the proprietary rear sight. If I can find my LMG stock (left over from a half hearted attempt to assemble a decent parts kit to graft onto a 1941 receiver to make a semi-auto version of it) somewhere in the disaster I call my workshop I'll be glad to post the dimensions of it.
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 23:36:47 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 19, 2012 23:36:47 GMT -5
I think my first target gun is going to be the Johnson rifle. Im not sure how close the LMG receiver was to the Auto Rifle but i would gladly take any pictures and measurements of either of the guns for future reference! Thanks!
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HornetWSO
Private 1st Class
"We may not have a history, but we have a rendezvous with destiny!"
Posts: 551
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Johnson
Apr 19, 2012 23:58:33 GMT -5
Post by HornetWSO on Apr 19, 2012 23:58:33 GMT -5
I found an old book called Battle Cry, about Marines (2nd I think) on Guadacanal. They used tons of rare weapons! It seems like the Army just used the absolute most common ones That was the Pogey Bait 6th Marines, Huxley's Hoares.
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Johnson
Apr 20, 2012 9:33:35 GMT -5
Post by fatheranderson on Apr 20, 2012 9:33:35 GMT -5
I think my first target gun is going to be the Johnson rifle. Im not sure how close the LMG receiver was to the Auto Rifle but i would gladly take any pictures and measurements of either of the guns for future reference! Thanks! There are a few minor differences, mostly involving adding a magwell to the left side, a sear cut for the auto sear, and some modifications to the fire selector and trigger group, but otherwise it's very much similar to the semi-auto version
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Johnson
Apr 20, 2012 11:16:10 GMT -5
Post by volkssturm on Apr 20, 2012 11:16:10 GMT -5
As far as the magazine goes, i was thinking of using an permanent internal midcap one that would be fed by a speed loader. As seen from the rear, it would be a C shape and have a 90 degree bend at the top to go to the hop unit. At this bend would be a secondary tube that goes straight out to the right side from the bend to falicitate loading. Also at the 90 degree bend would be a triangle shaped insert that would be spring loaded to move down and out of the way for loading of bb's. This triangle piece would deflect the bb's inside the magazine up and into the hop unit. When a speed loader is inserted into the right side of the gun and bb's are forced in, they would push the triangle piece down into its recess and allow the bb's to be pushed into the internal magazine. Once the bb's are in the magazine, no pressure would be exerted on the triangle and it would snap back into position, preventing the magazine from spitting bb's out and would force them into the hop unit once again. This would allow the mag to be reloaded at anytime while firing, but would mean that there would always be a few bb's left over in the hop unit unless the gun is tipped over and discharged. I may attempt to include a magazine release that retracts the triangel piece and allows the mag to be emptied rapidly. Any comments or ideas regarding my planning? P.s. sorry for such a long post! I think that's a plausible approach. I've toyed with the idea of a similar layout as an alternative for a top loading M1, but I'm too lazy/unskilled to try and actually build one. Good luck with it.
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Johnson
Apr 20, 2012 23:58:02 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 20, 2012 23:58:02 GMT -5
I had an idea for a top loading Garand using a thin pistol mag that would go in front of the gearbox but would need the rear half of the hop unit removed up to where the nozzle seals into the hopup. Although the tappet plate would need to be rigged to be actuated by the op rod, and a spring be placed at the bottom of the mag. different way of doing it but could work
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Johnson
Apr 23, 2012 11:30:34 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 23, 2012 11:30:34 GMT -5
It is great to see fresh and out of the box thinking on such things but before you get too ambitious take apart some ages and gearboxes and note the extremely tight tolerances one needs for a feed system to function and prove reliable. if you are already there and still anxious to pusue these efforts god love ya! I am an advocate of keeping things as close to the base weapons design as possible when it comes to function as the more I try to revise things internally the more unreliable they become.
for the Johnson I would think with the added guppy bulge you would have room to insert the longer shotgun mags from the cheap springers which would give you around 40 shots I believe. These are cheap and unlike the flush mounted shotty clips I use in my Garands are readily available every where. With the straight back butt stock having room for the m14 gear box should be much easier than with a Garand stock. The m14 barrel length and size should be about right. It would be a cool project.
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Johnson
Apr 23, 2012 12:42:32 GMT -5
Post by volkssturm on Apr 23, 2012 12:42:32 GMT -5
I can't tell you how many times I've had a brainstorm, laid out some parts and said "Crud! That ain't gonna work." ("Crud" is a euphemism.)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Johnson
Apr 23, 2012 22:25:12 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 23, 2012 22:25:12 GMT -5
Indeed it seems with all things airsoft, everything that seems to be simple in your head, turn out to be hard in the workshop. " crud, arrrrrrrggggghhhhhh, and far worse have frequently been heard emanating from my garage.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Johnson
Apr 24, 2012 9:31:56 GMT -5
Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 24, 2012 9:31:56 GMT -5
Indeed it seems with all things airsoft, everything that seems to be simple in your head, turn out to be hard in the workshop. " crud, arrrrrrrggggghhhhhh, and far worse have frequently been heard emanating from my garage. Yes I know what you mean ;D. Even so called simple custom jobs like an M1 Garand or Kar98 conversion can be a lot more work then one would think. I sometimes think is it really worth all the the work and time I put into this just to have that special gun. I guess I never really answer myself that question though.
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Johnson
Apr 24, 2012 14:36:37 GMT -5
Post by brownien on Apr 24, 2012 14:36:37 GMT -5
Yup i know the feeling! when i was defarbing my m1928 to make a m1928a1 with the horizontal grip, there was much frustration spewing from my workshop! especially when making a homemade Lyman sight for it.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Johnson
Apr 24, 2012 17:27:52 GMT -5
Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 24, 2012 17:27:52 GMT -5
Yea I am doing the same conversion except from an M1A1.
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Johnson
Apr 24, 2012 17:27:58 GMT -5
Post by jettalewis on Apr 24, 2012 17:27:58 GMT -5
Dunno what your probs are guys. All of my work has turned out first rate with no problems at all. LOL On the real side I have 3 drawers and a couple of boxes of screwed to the max guns. Incuding K98s, M14s, and some real steel Garand stuff too.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Johnson
Apr 24, 2012 17:50:36 GMT -5
Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 24, 2012 17:50:36 GMT -5
Yea so far I have like 2 M14s that are all in pieces with a lot of lost parts. Ah well they were my first two conversion weapons.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Johnson
Apr 28, 2012 21:23:26 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 28, 2012 21:23:26 GMT -5
I'd sure love to see you finally after all these years and posts placed get those M1 Garand conversions done! it really however can serve as a headsup to others that these things are far more challenging than novices to effort often realize. A Johnson would be quite doable depending on the level of infidelities and authenticity one is willing to accept.
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