The Axis "I'm Workin On It" Comment Thread

[Jager.Drü]

Marc. Thanks man I try to look good. I also agree with all of the points you have made. I have seen Marc's impression ( not in person) but over on AHF and he looks the part of a harden'd Landser. You should see his M43 cap, its great.

I also rock a period haircut all the time, but I don't use a period toothbrush and I wear Long Underwear under my stuff.

I don't find him to be pompus because I had the same thoughts as him, but didn't post them. If this is a first crack at SS why be an NCO with bling.

The only things I have on my fligerbluse is a jumpbadge and soon to be Iron Cross. I "won" the EK when Me and and another FJ laid dog and took out 13 Amis with our MP40s. This was with in the hedge grows, so it was like Normandy. I was "awarded" the EK for my actions. But the EK won't be worn to reenacting events as I didn't win it there.

Oh shooting the 105mm is TIGHT. I was the loader.

[jugendkrieger]

Thanks drew

you havent even seen my heer one. It makes the SS one look like poncho via's saddle blanket.

Perhaps ill get some pics of my Heer stuff up. I have fallen out of love with the illustrious SS.

105s are a thing of beauty.

Marc

[Jager.Drü]

I think I have, the one with the 1945 dated Kar98s that is washed out. I really like the picture.

[jugendkrieger]

Goddamn. Get outta my head! ! ! yes those are them. i have some more ill share. Look at the Stitch knot see thread.

[Jager.Drü]

LOL, I remember that one from AHF. Both your units have some big toys!

[Gerry]

It Figures you two are "buddies"

[binarypunisher]

<3

[Gerry]

drewb said:

If you mean buddies as in he lives on the E.Coast and me on the West. And you are just trying to pull off soppy stuff then Yes.

Drew and Brian, as much as you guys are gifts to the re-enactor world remeber these Hokey gatherings?:

pics.livejournal.com/binarypunisher/pic/000kg9hp.jpg

i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/DrewBattig/DSC02145.jpg

i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/DrewBattig/DSC02148.jpg

You guys have come a long way in a short time with good guidance and extensive research, no doubt this shows.....

But you guys have to carry and present yourselves to others a little different, there are positive ways and negative ways to do things. Be a little more positive towards people. Click has made some Very good posts above about positive reinforcement and you should take his advice into consideration. I am not worried about myself, I can care less but if you want to continue to see this sport grow rather trhan try to run people off you should take it into consideration.

As for Jugend-What-Ever well he said it best he's a D-bag!

[neoptolemus]

You might want to try to be more humble folks.

After all, when you try to sound so faultless, people might remember the less than stellar impressions.


As for jugendkrieger, I can find no fault with your impressions. Clearly your youth amongst SS reenactors hardened you against skimping on any details. Your face says it all:



Maybe in the future it would be better if mom took the picture.

[Jager.Drü]

Shall you talk, besides the camera his impression is legit.

i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/DrewBattig/Flaggrantly Wrong.jpg[/IMG]

I'd rather see a camera than a bright hellow SUV that your mom drives.

[gadge]

Right theres a couple of very good posts form Paul on some uk forums, i'm sure he wont mind me re-posting it wiht regards to elitism.

here we go:
"All

I think we can say that for many people looking to re-enact British, airborne is often the choice of the first time re-enactor. A Bridge Too Far probably has a lot to answer for this but, so what ? Anything that gets people hooked should be OK by us and newcomers should be welcomed.

Over the last few months - across three forums, I've been speaking to a quite large number newbies who've bought their kit over the autumn/winter period ready for the new season and I regret to say that 2 of the people who decided to do airborne have left and sold their kit on - without taking to the field at all - based on the comments they've read on the various forums. Comments made by us and our friends, chaps.

Unfortunately we're coming across as preachy, insular and elitist to outsiders. Comments about getting kit right, not doing research and just follwing advice given to them by re-enactment companies, age, weight and the perennial - wear wings, or not wear wings - discussions have left a couple of people feeling it's all a minefield and not the fun they were expecting at all. I've had to assure one guy that we are a nice bunch, that the snapping is due to the down time blues and that face to face, we'll be really welcoming if he decides to come to Crich.

Please stop and have a think about the way we talk to each other folks, a lot of us have had common interests, backgrounds and up to 20 years of shared re-eanctment baggage that leads to a barrage of shorthand, (to us) friendly insults and people declaring themselves to be oracles and fonts of all knowledge.

I'm as bad - don't think I'm singling anyone in particular out for this, but as it's been brought to my attention, I thought I pass it on in case through our ignorance we manage to chase off a few more people. Rememebr the promenaders of today could be the re-enactors of tomorrow and the 'wannabe paras' may be the future experts and mainstays of this hobby; If only they're given a chance. It's a hobby and, I think, some of us have to rememebr that - stop crowing about the size of our collections, our original kit, the number of commemorative marches we've been on, our perfect weight, height, military experience etc. etc. - and realise that everyone who wants to do this has the same rights we do... after all isn't that one of the things that was fought for 65 years ago ?

Those of us already in the hobby owe it to those who want to join us - once in, then you can start to educate ... but, we need to get them in first folks. It doesn't matter if they airsoft, dress up for dances or want to watch from the sidelines for a while; this re-enacment lark is about feeling comfortable doing something, having a group of supportive people around you etc. etc. after all, think about this - anyone who wants to join in our hobby isn't really doing a 'normal' activity as viewed by society at large. If they want to join the asylum, as far as possible we should support them wholeheartedly. That's got to start with the tone of our mails to each other.

Right, now you can all tell me how perfect you are and how none of this applies to you :shock:

Seriously, take care all, see you around this season - let's make it a fun and friendly one.

Paul"

"pebblemonkey wrote:
Hi All,
At the end of the day we are supposed to be Portraying Elite fighting units.
If you can`t give the impression of been able to portray that or give the impression.

We owe it to the veterans and the ones that didn`t come back, to get it right.
I portray Glider pilot as a tribute to a old work collegue of mine`s father who took part in Operation " Market" and stole a rowing boat to cross the Rhein to escape, then took 2 months to get home back to England.

Matt


Matt -

I knew someone would miss the point .... we're all up there in our ivory towers, we've read the books and collected all the kit, refined our collections over the years and gained (in my case 22) years of experience - but never in a semi-professional sense :roll:

I love at the 'end of the day' it's like 'with respect' and about as useful.

Picture the chap coming into this hobby who wants to get involved for the first time - does he need to come and seek our permission to do it ? Look at your reading list before he gets the 'kudos' to play in your beloved airborne ?? Are you only going to allow under 30, 12 stone 5'6" people to do this and sneer at the others It's not the military, it's not real life, it's a hobby.... WW2: The Theme Park and no one's likely to go home in a cardboard coffin as a result of enemy bombing !!

This being a free country, the last time I looked, people have the right to re-enact what they want to. Now, let's look at entry into this, a first timer buying his kit in one 'splurge' will either go to What Price Glory of SOF - invariably he's looking to portray his favoruite character in a war movie, and as far as he's concerned he's bought pukka kit - it's come from a company that specialises in these things and they're the ones who advertise on the web.

Once he's in, can you imagine being told, pointedly by us, that his smock is wrong, that he should be changing his woven insignia for printed ones, that he can only be correct if he buys Pegasus Militaria stuff ?? He's made the effort to reach the entry level and the money he's spent on it may have been hard earned and upgrade money may not be to hand for some time. But every time he goes out or reads the forums he finds he's the wrong size, physical shape, has bought the wrong denison smock and merits the sneering derision of all on here. How quickly before he leaves Also, let's look back at when we got into this - I wonder how many of us had to upgrade our kit as we went along.

Yes the airborne were and elite, Matt, but I'll tell you this as a member of the Parachute Regiment Association, the concensus of the wartime veterans is that they would far rather be remembered by someone doing it 'with the best of intentions' but not that accurately than to have their contribution forgotten forever.

My biggest concern is that if I/you/we are only going to associate with those people that meet our exacting standards, old son, we're going to become very lonely. We need to learn some tolerance, understanding and ... dare I say it, humility. We ARE in a very priviledged position, we have much of the stuff that other people can only dream of owning and we need to become a resource for others not an unattainable yardstick that we use to beat them over the head.

Paul"

and

whole thread here

www.alliedforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=473&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20

Think before you post, we wont attract *anyone* new inot the hobby if they come on forums and read slagfests.

[YankeeDiv26]

And here we are, the lowest level of forum communication skills, the nutorious "flame war". As much as I don't like to contribute to it, it seems as if it's the only level you (jagerdru and jugendkrieger) want to play on.

Jagerdru and jugendkrieger, your photos are certainly a byproduct of good impressions, good photography, and a genuine attempt at improving the historical accuracy of one's impression. I'll give you credit where credit is due. But you want to know what my favorite thing about them is?

I don't need to listen to you two guys carrying yourself like two pompus a$$es when I'm just looking at a picture! Frankly, if I saw an entire German airsofting or reenacting unit of guys with impressions and devotion like yours, I'd be extremely impressed. But after 10 minutes at an event with a group of guys acting like you are on this thread right now, I'd probably never wish to field with you again. Your target on this thread deserves to be given advice, not a sarcastic toungelashing. I'd feel hypocritical acting this way, but you deserve to be knocked down a peg for your attitudes, where as Panzer 1B should be simply given advice in order to move him up a peg. Panzer 1B may have an argueably "bad" impression, whereas you two have flatout bad attitudes.

[neoptolemus]

drewb said:

Shall you talk, besides the camera his impression is legit.

I'd rather see a camera than a bright hellow SUV that your mom drives.

I am pretty sure I can talk considering it's not my car and I'm speaking against the elitism which you find it convenient to back.

[Jager.Drü]

Cool. I love elitism. Because without it everyone would be a bunch of Swedish tunic wearing, not shaving, no period hair cuts, soppy, this is airsoft dude "reenactors".

Yankee there is was in no way you "knocked me down a peg" in the field I don't/wouldn't talk to you. As I would kill you or would be dead myself. Dead men don't talk.

[Gerry]

Actually I don't wear a Splinter smock at all!

The truth of the Matter is that the SS Impression was purchased by me for My brother who is wearing both of them, The SS and the FJ in the photos Thats not me (I'm not that ugly) He cannot afford to buy his own, he is not only my brother but my best friend, he has a strong interest in WW2 and the German Armed forces of that time period which probably stems from our grand dad that served in the 5 Gebirgs, Reg 85, II Bat, he survived the war seperated from my grandmother and moved to the Mediterranean which he fell in love with while fighting on Crete, my Grandmother and Dad immigrated to the US in the 60's. My Dad was a total WW2 Buff and we used to always sit and watch The World at War with him.

My Fallschirmjager impression is complete, right up to the Gauntlets and side lace up boots. The Smock is of the Early green color and I do have a Spearhead/BarryLyndon tan and water pattern as well.

If it comes down to me buying my brother a $450 M40 tunic from Lost Battalions or Diapers and formula for my son its a no-brainer! But at least I'll be able to get my brother more and more interested in WWII Airsoft and spend that much more time with my best buddy, maybe down the road he'll want to spend that $450 on a lost battalions M40 or on that Original M35 shell only time will tell but for now he'll have to settle for this one.

As far as the TD awards, IA badge and the NCO collar tabs and Shoulder boards the were used a couple of years ago by me to do a short show/skit at an "Invasion of Normandie" themed paintball game (largest PB game in the world) we were dressed in the Black Leibstandarte parade dress (Which were actually Modern Black BDU's) with plastic cushman helmets etc. We were bodyguards for the leader of the 1250 person German team, who had more money that he knew what to do with, he wanted the 3 of us looking good so he purchased each of us a repro insignia set which he let us to keep. He was an Avid collector of genuine SS Militaria. I had the insignia so I used it and saved myself 80 bucks or so... tabs, boards, sleeve, cufftitle. The TD badges are actually just pinned to the tunic. My brother actually did win those 2 TDB's for taking out 2 Allied tanks assaulting the German headquarters with our Squad Panzerfaust like this:
i112.photobucket.com/albums/n200/gerry528/E-bayo-rama007.jpg

The whole thing kinda spun off and we started a Leibstandarte paintbal team with a tank and all, here you can see the uniforms we wore this is the team captain with our Paintball panzer:

i112.photobucket.com/albums/n200/gerry528/DSCF0263.jpg

Different view of the panzer:
i112.photobucket.com/albums/n200/gerry528/DSCF0262.jpg

it was fun for the 2 years it lasted! It eventually led to wanting to More authentic kits that led to airsoft which led us here to these forums and to the point we are at now. here is a pic from one of our last paintball games my brother on the right and me on the left, they called us the 500/600 bat. of the SS so we ran with it....LOL

i112.photobucket.com/albums/n200/gerry528/Paintballguns013.jpg

So there are some explanations of why!

[binarypunisher]

See heres the thing Yankee, me and Drew CAN fall out a unit of FJ at an airsoft event with impressions nearly as good as ours.

I think everyone has good points here, but Id like to add:
1. If you didnt earn it, dont wear it. TD stripes are dumb, I think Iron Crosses are dumb too, sorry Drew. I also think in most cases wearing "equivalency" badges is dumb.
Theres a guy over on Gadges forum who has TD ribbons to the equivalent of destroying something like 12 tanks and claims it is "equivalency" - Im curious if that was on a range, or if there were actually people in that tank.
I think rank is fine...if you have a group that can support a higher rank. So if you only have 6 guys..none of you shoudl be an officer.

2. Haircuts. I dont care what haircut you have, I just dont want to see it. I dont see Gadges red mohawk, so Im not going to complain about it.
Facial hair is something so crazy easy to fix, it baffles me why people dont. Or at least photoshop it. Besides, I think facial hair looks like balls.

3. Excuses. If your impression is wrong, be prepared for criticism - or dont post it on the internet! Dont be a smurfing baby and argue about it. Wrong is wrong.

[Guinness]

Ok-

I heard there was a fight here- whats up? You kids not getting along together again? ;D

Well let me wade through all this and see what the trouble is/was.....

[YankeeDiv26]

binarypunisher said:

See heres the thing Yankee, me and Drew CAN fall out a unit of FJ at an airsoft event with impressions nearly as good as ours.

I think everyone has good points here, but Id like to add:
1. If you didnt earn it, dont wear it. TD stripes are dumb, I think Iron Crosses are dumb too, sorry Drew. I also think in most cases wearing "equivalency" badges is dumb.
Theres a guy over on Gadges forum who has TD ribbons to the equivalent of destroying something like 12 tanks and claims it is "equivalency" - Im curious if that was on a range, or if there were actually people in that tank.
I think rank is fine...if you have a group that can support a higher rank. So if you only have 6 guys..none of you shoudl be an officer.

2. Haircuts. I dont care what haircut you have, I just dont want to see it. I dont see Gadges red mohawk, so Im not going to complain about it.
Facial hair is something so crazy easy to fix, it baffles me why people dont. Or at least photoshop it. Besides, I think facial hair looks like balls.

3. Excuses. If your impression is wrong, be prepared for criticism - or dont post it on the internet! Dont be a smurfing baby and argue about it. Wrong is wrong.

I'll have to agree with most, if not all of that. From a historic standpoint so many "farbs" try to cover the black and white facts with a grey area of excuses. If you think you're sacrificing too much by doing something as simple as shaving, then take a good step back and think about something. When you wear a uniform, you represent people who were in it in real life, whether you like it or not. Their sacrifices are unmeasureable compared to yours.

I think the only reason you should wear a medal/award would be to actually earn it in real life, not through actions in an airsoft event. Anythingless than that belittles the medal/award and the actions veterans took to earn it. If someone else feels differently, that's their opinion. I'll respect it but I won't agree with it.

My main, if only, greivance is your attitudes. You conveyed the right advice, just in the wrong tone.

[Gerry]

guinness said:

Ok-

I heard there was a fight here- whats up? You kids not getting along together again? ;D

Well let me wade through all this and see what the trouble is/was.....

Better have a good pair of hip waders! LOL

[Gerry]

Here is a pic of my brother clean shavin with a proper hair cut in a tropical Fallschirmjager impression... hey does anyone know that guy in the foreground?

i10.photobucket.com/albums/a102/ww2aa/september07/S6300155.jpg

The day we took the SS imp pics we were just hangin' around and I suprised him with it, he wanted to try it on so I took some quick pic's, It wasn't the "stitch Knot-see" thread for pete's sake!

[binarypunisher]

Only complaint is the bandoleer...they werent tropical, they were late war.

[spitfire740]

Also Adler, I know of a guy who had a pair of Folgore knee gaurds for sale. they were incredibly expensive ($500), but were originals. His name is Jacopo, and he closed his online store but I know he still had a large inventory he didn't sell. I'll try to find his email if you'd like.

If you're having a hard time finding a para helmet, they often come on ebay every once in a while for $150-300. It's a jumpy price, but if you can get a good intact helmet with liner, it'll be definately worth it. You could also, convert a Fallshrimjaeger helmet and just put a para Italian camo helmet cover over it. Won't be correct, but its a fine substitute.

Now I'm starting to ramble, but I do recall a seller that had Folgore fur-lined gloves for sale. I'll try to find that too . Great work on the impression! I can't wait to see it fully completed.

[Guinness]

Right then-

It appears to be the age-old "You're Farb and I Ain't" rant-

Well written responses by Gerry, Ripper, Yankee, Click, Gadge and everybody- Lively discussion and good points all.

As stated in many of the posts, this section is absolutely for sharing your efforts, your work and your hobby among friends and fellow enthusiasts. It is a place to seek advice, suggestions and yes, even criticism.

It is not however a place that one can attack, demean, belittle or insult fellow Airsofters and WW2AA members, period.

Obviously Jugend's initial remarks were not meant as an attack, we all understand that- And as I am a staunch supporter of freedom of speech I would never censor a members posts (with some obvious common-sense exceptions)-

However what I would do as moderator, sometimes Referee and fellow member, is to simply point out that there is no reason to be hostile and insensitive in these discussions- we are all here to learn and share.

So with all of that said...

Jugendkrueger-[/u] Try and think of one thing in your life that you may be a little 'sensitive' about- Something that if someone was to point out your shortcomings in a harsh or "Douche-bag" way would make you feel VERY defensive and perhaps even inadequate- Make it something that if someone said to you "Hey.....that really blows hard Dude"[/b] would hurt you deeply because you feel that you are doing your best. Think hard and long about this.

Then the next time you go to write an opinion of someones impression, remember that.

If you can't come up with even one thing that allows you to see this from a different perspective and put yourself in another person's shoes, then you are indeed perfect and probably not of the same Human race as the rest of us poor slobs plodding along day-to-day. Good for you.

I'm quite certain that's not the case however .


In closing, be very clear that I am NOT remotely suggesting that you ever need to:

"APOLOGIZE OR BACK DOWN FOR DOING THINGS RIGHT"

and yes, you certainly can:

"...voice My opinion in a COMMENT thread cant I?"

However, the rules of this Forum require that you treat others with the same respect and consideration of feelings that one would 'out in the world'. So if that is something that you believe you can do- great! We appreciate your contributions, if not, then in the immortal words of President Sarkozy.......

"Casse-toi, pauvre con!"












Carry on-

[click]

Just so you guys know, kreiger and I have come to an understanding via PMs. I have apologized for immature name calling but I just thought I would let you guys know that I know it was wrong. I think it is pointless to continue this arguement unless it can be done in person in an orginized manner (like a ww2aa meeting discussing policy) Which I dont really have the means to attend and I am not sure I would attend anyways. So can we all just get along?

Click

[Adler69]

spitfire740 said:

Also Adler, I know of a guy who had a pair of Folgore knee gaurds for sale. they were incredibly expensive ($500), but were originals. His name is Jacopo, and he closed his online store but I know he still had a large inventory he didn't sell. I'll try to find his email if you'd like.

If you're having a hard time finding a para helmet, they often come on ebay every once in a while for $150-300. It's a jumpy price, but if you can get a good intact helmet with liner, it'll be definately worth it. You could also, convert a Fallshrimjaeger helmet and just put a para Italian camo helmet cover over it. Won't be correct, but its a fine substitute.

Now I'm starting to ramble, but I do recall a seller that had Folgore fur-lined gloves for sale. I'll try to find that too . Great work on the impression! I can't wait to see it fully completed.

Cool Spitfire , if you find the info send me a PM.

The camo jump smock was made by my Aunt who lives in Italy , so was the Samurai Vest , she's married to a Movie director and she's in charge of the wardrobe department for his movies ( B rated moviesby the way) , it took her about a year to make the stuff for me , she finally sent it and told me that they are looking for a helmet , either wartime or the post war ones.

Sarebbe un honor grande per combattere accanto voi il mio amico

My Italian is a little rusty Spitfire ;D

[Guinness]

I have a somewhat related Italian forces question-

When Italy reversed itself after the deposition of Il Duce and declaring war on Germany in October of 1943, were there then Italian forces fighting along side the rest of the allies?

And if so, did they wear the same uniforms or how did that work?

I must admit I am pretty ignorant of the 'Italian Situation' in the last two years of the war.

[Adler69]

Guinness, the Italian Forces that joined the Allies where rearmed and equiped with British and American gear , uniforms and weapons.

[spitfire740]

well, its pretty complicated. The Italian military was split. The North, of course dominated by the germans and Mussolini's puppet government (RSI), and the South by the advancing Allies. Many soldiers, those who have been forcefully disarmed, such as the famous disarmament massacers (Captain Corelli's Mandolin is an example) in greece, made many Italians very upset with the germans. The arming of American and British equipment and firearms, led to the adoption of US weapons (If you ever saw on ebay or somthing, an italian made M1 garand, thats why).

Now of course there were still many Fascist italians, loyal to Mussolini, joined his northern puppet government into this thing called the RSI. Many units consisting of Alpini/Bersaglieri units, Nembo and Folgore units, Blackshirts, XaMAS, Carabinieri, etc. , fought in many late war campaigns. The Eastern Front was notorius for the Italian ARMIR (east front army) escaping the Russian ecirclment. And still many units stayed in Italy and fought the allies. They too, adopted german equipment and arms.

If you ask, you're gonna get a logn ass answer . Sorry for my randomness. BTW Adler, your Italian is much better than mine, I'm hoping to take a class in college, but its a work in progress...

[Guinness]

This is all very interesting!

I know we should probably take this to another thread but...I don't wanna yet. ;D

So just one more question, were there any stories of Italians fighting along side us and making an impact on the effort or was it difficult for them to gain acceptance?

[Adler69]

well , i spent a couple of Summers in Italy as a kid , with my aunt and also at the Vatican , my moms uncle was a Cardinal , you should see the armory of the Swiss Guards .